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http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 ------------------------
Session Start: Thu Dec 02 07:15:23 2010
Session Ident: #FuturesTrades
[07:15:23] * Now talking in #FuturesTrades
[07:15:23] <@X> [NihabaAshi] chat room archives @
viewforum.php?f=20[08:31:29] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[09:24:16] <LP>
all
[09:26:45] <+cwj>
all
[09:27:40] <+cwj> buying a lil ZN scalp around a core long, keeping it small
[09:27:52] <+cwj> 22-23
[09:28:03] <drt>
[09:28:15] <Time4now>
[09:28:36] <Sidhartha>
[09:41:11] <+cwj> out ouch 122-18 for now
[09:46:44] <+Fleneer> good morning
[09:47:16] <+Time4now> ism mfg at 10 et
[09:53:11] <+LP> s nq 2170
[09:53:48] <+Fleneer> pending home sales up at 10:00
[09:56:23] <+LP> stop 2172.50
[10:01:07] <+cwj> bot es 13.25
[10:01:29] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[10:01:53] <+cwj> home sales wow... surprised to upside, still -20% y/y thog
[10:02:58] <+Fleneer> poor number and market higher. "less bad" according to the talking heads. Less bad so that's good.
[10:03:26] <+Fleneer> ever wanted a example why I say trading is a crap shoot, you got it.
[10:03:44] <+cwj>
[10:04:18] <+Sidhartha> if your trading figs then it's a crap shoot... objective is to trade what you see in front of you on the screen...
[10:04:32] <+Sidhartha> hopefully there you can find an edge
[10:05:06] <+cwj> offering 15.00
[10:05:19] <+cwj> out
[10:14:03] <+LP> s nq 2177.50
[10:19:49] <+LP> out half at 2175, target 2172, stop b/e
[10:25:15] <+LP> out
[10:25:55] <+LP> no love
[10:26:37] <+cwj> oh almost forgot.. fed buying 10y sector now in cash
[10:29:19] <+cwj> 7-9Bn, 2/2018s-11/2020's
[10:36:20] <+LP> grrrr nq target hit
[10:53:08] <+Time4now> why is the market so flat?
[10:53:25] <+Time4now> i'm falling asleep
[11:31:30] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[12:26:58] <+cwj> bot ZN 275
[12:35:55] <codehead> boy, haven't been trading much, very jumpy
[12:36:23] <+codehead> got NQ short at 2181.75, 3 ticks form hod, took 2 ticks heat, move my cover for +1 tick
[12:36:28] <+codehead> :-/
[12:36:48] <+codehead> only trade this week
[12:37:06] <+codehead> only filled trade
[12:58:30] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[13:08:31] <+codehead> 20ema catching up, bounce there last two time
[13:08:43] <+codehead> under 2180, NQ will look toppy now
[13:09:18] <+Sidhartha> codehead... i was out yesterday afternoon... just following on from your front end disucsison... i'm using IB and ZeroLine Trader these days... it's pretty darn good.
[13:09:28] <+codehead> ic
[13:10:09] <+codehead> i prefer entering trades from Mac OS, but cant' do that anyway with PFG--i'll check zlt out again
[13:10:23] <+codehead> right now i run IB on the Mac
[13:10:40] <+Sidhartha> zlt runs on mac osx also
[13:10:48] <+Sidhartha> it's a java platform like TWS
[13:10:49] <+codehead> on a separate computer than i run esignal from (also mac, but running parallels)
[13:10:55] <+codehead> oh really
[13:10:55] <+codehead> hm
[13:11:00] <+codehead> cool--thx!
[13:16:09] <+codehead> i'd looked at it before, but i guess i thought it was windows only because in their faq it says you can run on multiple computers, but they have to use the same Windows user name
[13:16:19] <+codehead> elsewhere it says they support Mac OS
[13:23:22] <+codehead> oil pop
[13:31:05] <+Sidhartha> i've been impressed with it... it's my most preferred setup yet in a couple of years of trading
[13:32:12] <+codehead> oh cool
[13:32:26] <+codehead> i don't think i'll be able to stand the added confirmations in IB
[13:32:56] <+codehead> tho i was playing with it in sim a couple fo days ago, and they have improved the positioning so that you can confirm very quickly
[13:33:11] <+codehead> still, it's another annoyance
[13:38:52] <+Sidhartha> added confirmations...
[13:39:37] <+Sidhartha> i don't have any added confirmations... I execute right from the DOM into IB... one click entry and exit...
[14:18:43] <+codehead> hm, 2187 NQ is 1.618
[14:19:06] <+codehead> had a hunch ES would not rest till stops above 1220 were tested
[14:19:19] <+codehead> oil been on quite a march
[14:19:30] <+codehead> you using old IB?
[14:19:39] <+codehead> they require upgrade by the 7th
[14:19:58] <+codehead> they will no longer support software versions without the confirmations
[14:20:11] <+codehead> due to patent
[14:20:31] <+Sidhartha> who's patent...
[14:20:37] <+Sidhartha> TT../
[14:20:38] <+Sidhartha>
[14:20:42] <+codehead> yes
[14:20:57] <+codehead> i mean, IB doesn't say it, but that's why, certianly
[14:20:58] <+Sidhartha> using 909.8
[14:21:25] <+codehead> hm
[14:21:29] <+codehead> interesting...
[14:21:31] <+codehead> lol
[14:21:44] <+codehead> well... IB put it in 906
[14:21:51] <+codehead> hm
[14:22:13] <+Sidhartha> who told you this...
[14:22:16] <+codehead> now, i was considering doing a little hacking
[14:22:22] <+codehead> well, IB for one
[14:22:55] <+codehead> and they made it clear they would not disable confirmations
[14:22:57] * +Time4now long tf 749.1
[14:23:11] <+codehead> k, i'm firing up the latest version, will try in sim
[14:23:40] <+codehead> hm, wondering if we'll go up into bond close, then get another iffy close
[14:24:03] <+codehead> current version is 912 (browser launch)
[14:25:11] <+Sidhartha> i run standalone... not browser btw
[14:26:11] <+Sidhartha> when this TT patent was being talked about a lot, I was seriously considering writing my own DOM...
[14:27:47] * +Time4now exit 749.4
[14:28:31] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[14:29:58] <+codehead> i run standalone too
[14:30:12] <+codehead> and every day it tells me that i need ot upgrade
[14:30:23] <+codehead> that they will no longer support after the 7th
[14:30:36] <+codehead> says won't support below 906
[14:30:47] <+codehead> when they started confirmations
[14:31:01] <+codehead> hm, i shorted sim, but i felt i should do it real
[14:31:21] <+Sidhartha> weird... have no idea why mine works absolutely fine then!!!
[14:31:42] <+Sidhartha> I just mailed the developer Hong... see what he says
[14:33:21] <+codehead> so... when you click a price on the IB boooktrader ladder, no confirmation dialog?
[14:33:27] <+Sidhartha> does it require a confirm just on the entry...
it can't require one on the brackets...
[14:33:55] <+codehead> the order and the bracket get confirmed with the one order confirmation, yes
[14:33:55] <+Sidhartha> hold on... are we talking about the same thing... I'm talking about zerline trader...
[14:34:09] <+codehead> but if you move any one of the components, they each ask for confirmation
[14:34:18] <+codehead> ah, thought so
[14:34:30] <+codehead> no, it's *booktrader* that has the confirmations
[14:34:38] <+codehead> that's why i'm looking at other optionbs
[14:34:43] <+codehead> options
[14:34:47] <+Sidhartha> zeroline trader is a dream... no confirms required... booktrader is rubbish compared to ZLT
[14:34:54] <+codehead> you see, TT would ahve to sue zeroline
[14:35:06] * +Time4now long tf 749.3
[14:35:09] <+codehead> great, thanks for clearing that up
[14:35:13] <+Sidhartha> yeah... and the 50 clients ZLT has...
[14:35:25] <+Sidhartha> would it be worth their while...
?
[14:35:40] <+codehead> exactly
[14:36:23] <+codehead> even pfg's free "best direct 8.0" has a ladder with no confirmations
[14:36:25] <+Sidhartha> I mean, at the end of the day, this TT patent isn't enforcable beyond a certain level... a good coder could knock up a rudimentary DOM in a couple of days and distribute privately to trader friends... what they gonna do?
[14:36:29] <+codehead> however, it's a crappy interfacde
[14:36:43] <+codehead> i'm surprised IB doesn't stonewall em
[14:36:52] <+codehead> the patent could be fought, easily
[14:37:03] <+codehead> there seems to be prior art
[14:37:09] <+Sidhartha> i'm surprised they even got a patent for it to be honest
[14:37:21] <+codehead> for IB to piss off a lot of customers, doesn't seem worth it
[14:37:39] <+codehead> you can get a patent on a lot of things
[14:37:42] * +Time4now exit 749.4
[14:37:52] <+Sidhartha> TT are really going for this...
[14:37:55] <+codehead> i've done a lot of high-tech patent expert consulting
[14:38:19] <+Sidhartha> i mean traders been using static price ladders on bits of paper for about 60 years
[14:38:38] <+Sidhartha> it's bonkers
[14:38:43] <+codehead> yeah
[14:39:07] <+codehead> well, looks like zlt has a 30-day free trial
[14:39:10] <+Sidhartha> I reckon I could code my own DOM easily on AmiBroker to excute straight into IB
[14:39:19] <+codehead> yeah, i've considered coding my own
[14:39:32] <+codehead> probably the best solution, maybe some day
[14:39:39] <+Sidhartha> yeah I did the ZLT 30 day trial...
[14:40:05] <+codehead> well, now that i know it works on mac, i'll give it a shot
[14:40:37] <+Sidhartha> good stuff
[14:40:43] <+Sidhartha> let me know how you go
[14:48:21] <+codehead> k thx
[14:49:12] <+codehead> oil squeeze right into close
[14:52:15] <+codehead> NQ tapped within a tick of 1.618, bond close coming up
[14:54:08] <+codehead> hm, mm blue line at 2187.50 too, fwiw
[15:18:47] * wrbtrader_away is now known as wrbtrader
[15:19:13] <@wrbtrader> Hi all...been gone all day for personal appointments. [15:19:51] <@wrbtrader> Sidhartha...today my data provider and brokers sent out emails about new fees by the ICE.
[15:20:15] <@wrbtrader> Data vendor is going to pass the fee to the client
[15:20:47] <@wrbtrader> However, I'm a little confused about the broker...I will need to call them.
[15:28:54] <@wrbtrader> U.S dollar flat line on the volatility the past 20 mins
[15:30:00] <@wrbtrader> Looks like all the action (strong price direction) occurred between 0900am - 1130am est in the U.S. dollar
[15:31:08] <+Sidhartha> wrbtrader, thanks. I guess there is a chance your broker could swallow the fee.... no chance with the chart/data provider...
[15:31:19] <+Sidhartha> that mean your going to drop TF...
[15:33:00] <@wrbtrader> Data vendors are less likely to swallow any new fees by any exchanges these days. In contrast, most establish brokers do swallow the new fees.
[15:33:35] <@wrbtrader> However, most likely I will drop Emini TF because I have no attention to paying extra money through my Data vendor
[15:34:19] <@wrbtrader> If Emini TF was EXTREMELY liquid like Emini ES...I would continue trading it even though they've hiked the fees
[15:34:31] <+Sidhartha> i'm in the same boat... i use a separate data vendor to chart because the data quality is much higer (and faster)
[15:36:16] <@wrbtrader> $70 dollars is too much for the Emini TF regardless if they combined it with other trading instruments
[15:36:34] <+Sidhartha> CL is pretty liquid... never traded it though
[15:36:37] <@wrbtrader> Trading is a "business"...we still need to manage our overhead costs of trading.
[15:37:09] <+Sidhartha> absolutely!
[15:40:48] <+codehead> IB has been charging $1/month for TF, esignal just sent out a notice as well about TF etc
[15:41:04] <+codehead> haven't traded russell since ER2
[15:41:11] <+codehead> but i do watch DX, and that will cost now
[15:56:34] <@wrbtrader> Around mid summer this year I talked about (in here) the number of day traders have decreased and that exchanges, brokers and data vendors most likely will be lowering fees or giving freebies to "attract" clients.
[15:56:57] <@wrbtrader> I'm obviously wrong because they are going opposite of what I expected
[15:57:46] <+Time4now> i remember, and that's too bad
[15:58:31] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[15:58:33] <+Time4now> I don't think an extra 70 bucks would deter me if I were profitable
[15:58:34] <+Sidhartha> well, the CME have done exactly via the exchange fee waiver programme...
[15:58:48] <+Sidhartha> however, ICE clearly think they can do the complete opposite
[15:59:01] <+Sidhartha> as you'd say wrbtrader... Punks
[15:59:58] <+Sidhartha> T4N... well, that's what they are banking on clearly... but is their product THAT unique...
[16:02:18] <+Time4now> Well, if I learned how to trade via TF only, I would need to stick with it.
[16:03:05] <@wrbtrader> [15:58:33] <+Time4now> I don't think an extra 70 bucks would deter me if I were profitable
[16:03:38] <@wrbtrader> As you know...I've been thinking about trading something else instead of Emini TF for most of this year.
[16:04:19] <@wrbtrader> Just have not found a strong enough reason to make the switch...until now that ICE (an exchange I don't like) seems to be trying to kill the Russell 2000
[16:05:05] <@wrbtrader> If they have more products that I can consider for trading besides the Emini TF...the $70 bucks would be no big deal
[16:05:52] <+Time4now> sounds like a negative forcast for the tf
[16:06:35] <+Time4now> if many people feal the same way, the russell really will die
[16:07:04] <@wrbtrader> Yeah...I think so because I've watched it's volatility, volume and interest drop dramatically since I purchase the Emini TF
[16:07:16] <@wrbtrader> I = ICE
[16:07:46] <@wrbtrader> TF was a hot thing to trade when it was known as the ER2 at the CME exchange
[16:08:06] <+codehead> holy mission impossible--seen the masks at spfxmasks?
[16:08:20] <+codehead> just saw second story lately about someone using them
[16:08:35] <+codehead> white guy been holding up banks with black man mask
[16:08:47] <@wrbtrader> There's lots of other good stuff to trade that's worth paying new (additional) fees...
[16:08:52] <+codehead> and the youns asian who got on a plane with the old man mask
[16:08:58] <+codehead> amazing how good they are
[16:09:31] <@wrbtrader> Such as Oil futures, Gold futures, Eurex DAX, Eurofx 6E futures and a few others
[16:11:27] <+Time4now> I will manually back test the 6e when I get to Iraq
[16:11:47] <+Time4now> or afghan-, whenever I have time
[16:12:28] <+Time4now> I have paper traded just the tf the past year
[16:12:36] <@wrbtrader> If the U.S. Dollar futures had move liquidity...I would consider trading it.
[16:12:52] <@wrbtrader> However, it's much less than Emini TF
[16:13:05] <@wrbtrader> in terms of volatility, liquidity
[16:16:43] <@wrbtrader> Any CQG users in here
[16:25:18] <+Time4now> Well, i will be trading tomorrow, and then I'm off to Iraq
[16:26:06] <+Time4now> I will be raising trading capital as well as studying
[16:26:58] <+Time4now> I doubt I will be able to activly watch the markets though
[16:27:12] <+Time4now> depends on the connection
[16:37:25] <+codehead> good luck
[16:37:43] <+Time4now> yep
[16:38:02] <+Time4now> back tomorrow
[17:28:32] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[17:51:27] * cwj is now known as cwj-away
Session Close: Thu Dec 02 18:59:16 2010
-------------------------
#FuturesTrades is
free and is a serious professional trading chat room in which any trader can use the chat room to post their trades or commentaries involving futures, exchange traded funds or forex currencies. Simply, you don't need to be a client of TheStrategyLab.com to use the chat room nor do you need to be a price action only trader (no indicators) because some members use indicators while others do not.
Therefore, we welcome
all traders with their own trade signal methods, different perspective of the markets and different experience levels. To gain access to #FuturesTrades...please follow the instructions at the below link.
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum/viewforum.php?f=5The purpose of #FuturesTrades is that it's designed to be a
trade journal for documentation purposes only so that members can have a time stamp archive of trades and market commentaries of each trading day so that they can better understand their broker statements from one trade to the next trade when they review their performance numbers on any given trading day.
Further, members are not obligated to educate nor help other members but members are encourage to ask questions about any trades or market commentaries that's posted by others.
In addition, our primary job in the
free chat room is to moderate the room (keep the peace) because with so many members using different trade signal methods along with different opinions about the market...debates or arguments can easily flare up without moderating. In addition, our presence in the chat room is to ensure it's a
spam free chat room during trading although these archived chat logs may contain advertisements for guest visitors.
Commonly discussed trading instruments from futures, exchange traded funds and forex currencies:
CME Emini Futures EMD, ES and NQ
ICE Emini TF Futures (formerly CME ER2)
CBOT mini-sized Dow Futures YM
Eurex Index Derivatives (futures) DAX and DJ Euro Stoxx50
Eurex Fixed Income Derivatives (futures) BUND, BOBL and Schatz
Euronext Futures FTSE-100 and CAC-40
CME Futures EuroFX 6E and EC
Treasury Futures T-Notes ZT, ZN, ZF and T-Bonds ZB
Forex Currencies GbpUsd, EurUsd, EurYen and UsdCdn
Exchange Traded Funds VXX, DIA, IWM, QQQQ, SPY, BGU, FAS, FAZ, TNA, OIH, XLE and GLD
NYMEX Energy Futures Light Crude Oil CL, Brent Crude Oil BRN, e-miNY QM and Natural Gas NG
COMEX Metal Futures Gold GC, mini-Gold YG, Copper HG and Silver SI
S&P CNX NIFTY Futures
Hang Seng Index Futures HSI and mini-Hang Seng MHI
Also, to prevent the usual mix-up about our different chat rooms, most of our fee-base clients do not use chat rooms just like most retail traders do not use chat rooms. Yet, the few clients that do use chat rooms, our fee-base clients are discussing market analysis or
price action only trade signals via concepts from our strategies in the
private chat rooms called
#VolatilityTradingTSL or
#SwingTradingTSL and they're not allowed to do such in #FuturesTrades.
Reminder, our
Terms of Use (TOU) Policy is a must read to prevent any misunderstandings along with revealing that #FuturesTrades is a serious professional trading chat room and we expect members to act
professional. Also, these logs may have been edited (rarely) to remove any messages that a member has complained to me via private message that they consider a particular commentary to be inappropriate, offending or too far in the off topic area that's a distraction when the commentary was posted.
Note: All logs regardless to their location at TheStrategyLab.com website are eastern standard time. Best Regards,
M.A. Perry
Trader and Founder of
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Price Action Only Trading (no indicators)
@
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