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Session Start: Wed Dec 15 08:27:25 2010
Session Ident: #FuturesTrades
[08:27:25] * Now talking in #FuturesTrades
[08:27:25] <@X> [NihabaAshi] chat room archives @
viewforum.php?f=20[08:40:03] <pat255>
N
[08:56:42] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[09:22:24] <puma>
[09:24:19] <@wrbtrader> Good morning pat255, puma and all
[09:24:33] <+pat255>
all
[09:24:56] <Trendtrader> good morning all
[09:27:41] <drt>
all
[09:28:53] <LP>
[09:33:41] <+Trendtrader> Long TF @ 768.9
[09:37:13] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 769.30 -> small size
[09:37:14] <+Trendtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 769.2 --> + 0.3
[09:38:20] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 769.30 -> Add
[09:38:24] <@wrbtrader> 1 + 2
[09:38:31] <@wrbtrader> 3 contracts total
[09:39:48] <@wrbtrader> shallow WRB profit target reached
[09:40:42] <werner>
all
[09:41:11] <@wrbtrader> Covered 1/3 TF Short @ 769.00 --> + 0.3
[09:41:32] <@wrbtrader> Covered 1/3 TF Short @ 769.10 --> + 0.2
[09:41:59] <@wrbtrader> Covered Remainder TF Short @ 769.20 --> + 0.1
[09:42:13] <+pat255> ndx overall weak so far
[09:49:09] <+LP> s nq 2208
[09:51:33] <@wrbtrader> That's a lot of movement in TF via 1 contract trades
[09:51:47] <Sidhartha> TF turbo charged this morning... I think it's ICE trying to justify the fee's...
[09:53:53] <+LP> out be
[09:54:44] <+LP> might try s 2210
[09:55:26] <@wrbtrader> Most retail traders are attracted to futures that trend or produce strong directional price movmement...
[09:56:04] <@wrbtrader> Reason why I have NEVER been able to determine why the Russell 2000 is not more popular than the S&P 500 Emini ES
[09:56:36] <@wrbtrader> However, I do know the Emini ES is heavily more advertised, marketed by the CME than the ICE
[09:57:02] <@wrbtrader> Brokers and data vendors advertise the Emini ES more than the Emini TF too
[09:57:05] <+pat255> es big players have no liquidity issues
[09:57:13] <+Sidhartha> and of course there is HUGE institutional volume in ES... for hedging all sorts of stuff
[09:57:22] <@wrbtrader> Yeah but retailers aren't big players.
[09:57:54] <@wrbtrader> Thus, Emini TF should be very popular amongst retailers and Emini ES is very popular amongst institutions
[09:58:01] <+pat255> y
[09:58:14] <+pat255> oil lagging
[09:58:31] <@wrbtrader> Oil is lagging a lot and so are other key markets
[09:58:41] <@wrbtrader> Reason why I haven't jump on Emini TF
[09:58:46] <@wrbtrader> It's doing its own thing
[09:59:27] <@wrbtrader> Other markets starting to make new highs
[09:59:34] <@wrbtrader> intraday highs is what I meant
[10:04:10] <@wrbtrader> now that other markets have caught up...it's a "now what"
[10:06:12] <+pat255> amazing Tf conitnue to push up
[10:07:06] <@wrbtrader> It pushed up to yesterday's first price reaction area of the FOMC announcement
[10:07:46] <@wrbtrader> meant up and past it
[10:09:08] <@wrbtrader> price stall and pullbacks are very shallow
[10:10:03] <+pat255> y nq too
[10:10:17] <+pat255> parabolic move
[10:13:51] <+Sidhartha> feels like a spectator sport at the moment...
[10:14:40] <@wrbtrader> Yep
[10:14:45] <@wrbtrader> It happens
[10:21:51] <+LP> s tf 775
[10:22:11] <+LP> 1 pt stop
[10:24:42] <+LP> target 771
[10:25:45] <+LP> i will need help holding this one to the target
[10:26:05] <puma> s tf 775,1
[10:26:43] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[10:27:39] <@wrbtrader> Emini TF testing the most recent support area
[10:28:24] <+LP> oil #'s in 1 min
[10:28:38] <+pat255> ty LP
[10:28:46] <+LP>
[10:30:33] <+LP> out +.40
[10:30:51] <+pat255> .nice cl spike
[10:30:52] <+LP> will short again at 774.30
[10:31:28] <+LP> oil no help
[10:34:32] <+puma> tf out
[10:34:59] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 775.40 -> small size
[10:35:13] <@wrbtrader> whooo...what's that
[10:35:21] <@wrbtrader> voaltility spike...rising fast
[10:35:36] <@wrbtrader> 2 contracts
[10:37:05] <@wrbtrader> Last time I've seen this type of price action in Emini TF was when it was on the CME before the financial crisis
[10:40:35] <+LP> to bad CME didn't come up with a good replacement of TF
[10:42:13] <+LP> Equity Index Products
[10:42:13] <+LP> View an Equity Index Product
[10:42:13] <+LP> E-mini S&P SmallCap 600 Futures
[10:42:27] <+LP> lol sorry
[10:42:43] <+LP> not as good as the TF
[10:48:22] <+LP> i would like to fill that 10:00 candle on the 15min TF
[10:49:11] <+LP> don't think so today, will see
[10:49:15] <@wrbtrader> Emini TF stalling within the price action of that "crappy" price action on Monday
[10:49:32] <@wrbtrader> The one that had all those "long shadows" from being lost
[10:49:39] <+pat255> was looking for NQ S .. but did not then see N going L ...was corect not to S nq .
[10:50:36] <+pat255> i always try to s parabolic move but not the right way to trade ..
[10:50:47] <+pat255> wait for pb & go with the trend
[10:51:22] <+Sidhartha> picking the end of parabolic trends is a quick way to the poor house...
[10:51:30] <@wrbtrader> The trick is that as soon as you catch yourself using words like "parabolic", "strong" et cetera...
[10:51:37] <@wrbtrader> it's something not to trade against
[10:51:46] <+pat255> yes Sid
[10:51:54] <+pat255> agree N
[10:52:26] <+pat255> today did the right thing ...gotta log in my journal
[10:52:38] <+Sidhartha> it's my natural inclination too Pat... I want to sell high and buy low... but over the years I've worked very hard against that... cause it just cost me too much money!!!
[10:52:51] <+pat255> so true Sid
[10:53:39] <+pat255> watching n he never does that ..so resisted the urge tody
[10:54:53] <+Sidhartha> gonna take a break. back later
[10:55:00] <+pat255> k .
[10:55:50] <+LP> euro push down
[10:57:04] <@wrbtrader> I learned very fast during trading when the "bubble burst" late 2000 that going Long in such a strong parabolic drop was "easy and fast losses"
[10:57:49] <@wrbtrader> Took about a month of consistent losses to break that habit
[10:57:51] <+pat255> v true ...
[10:58:46] <+LP> late 2000 was like catching knives, lost a lot of fingers
[10:59:16] <@wrbtrader> more like trying to catch a chain saw
[10:59:22] <+LP> hehee
[10:59:41] <+pat255> lol
[11:01:52] <@wrbtrader> SPY still have not returned to yesterday's first price reaction area to the FOMC announcement
[11:02:09] <@wrbtrader> Other Eminis are higher in contrast
[11:02:36] <@wrbtrader> That's the only reason why I chased Emini TF...thought there was some more juice in it
[11:03:01] <@wrbtrader> due to the fact SPY is sluggish
[11:03:08] <+pat255> good observation
[11:04:01] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 776.00 --> + 0.6
[11:04:33] <+LP> s 775.80
[11:12:58] <@wrbtrader> Not sure why TF hasn't tested that 774.90 support area
[11:13:17] <@wrbtrader> it's trying now
[11:13:48] <+LP> out 775.10
[11:13:55] <+pat255> vn
[11:14:01] <+LP> ty
[11:14:10] <@wrbtrader> Now if it retraces back up above 774.90
[11:14:17] <@wrbtrader> I'll be looking to get Long
[11:15:19] <+LP> geezzz ;(
[11:15:43] <+LP> 771 target
[11:16:21] <@wrbtrader> That's about 1/2 retracement of that strong directional up movement
[11:17:08] <+LP> 772, half of the 10:00 candle would have been nice, oh well
[11:32:50] <+pat255> later guys ty all
[11:53:43] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[11:56:09] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 773.90 -> small size
[11:56:18] <@wrbtrader> 1 contract
[12:07:50] <@wrbtrader> got a little lucky so far on this trade because I was late to the table...
[12:08:35] <@wrbtrader> was busy doing a personal errand and when I return...jumped on the trade after missing a great entry price around 773.20
[12:08:48] <@wrbtrader> Thus, about 7 ticks late
[12:35:41] <@wrbtrader> Exited TF Long @ 774.50 --> + 0.6
[12:52:01] <+Sidhartha> kinda weird price action today... not very ordered
[12:53:01] <+LP> 771 target hit
[12:53:41] <+LP> didn't think we would get there today
[12:55:08] <+LP> another big candle on the 15min tf
[12:55:11] <+Sidhartha> IWM at it open
[12:57:03] <+LP> "they" might get all the action done today and take thur fri off
[12:58:45] <+Sidhartha> trying to find support here around a few opens for the day
[13:01:22] <+LP> fri big end of the year expiration day, I think quad witching
[13:05:31] <codehead> long NQ 2202.25
[13:09:30] <+codehead> out +2.00 NQ
[13:09:37] <+codehead> could be a bottom
[13:09:47] <+codehead> but i have distractions
[13:09:53] <+codehead> doh and there it goes
[13:16:06] <@wrbtrader> Geeesh...twice today I've taken a break from trading at the "wrong time"
[13:16:55] <@wrbtrader> I step away for awhile @ 1236pm est after I closed my last trade...come back and see TF down 5 points
[13:18:06] <+codehead> i got a nice surprise today
[13:18:34] <+codehead> was holding some MTXX (zicam) that i'd gotten cheap
[13:18:49] <+codehead> took a look and it was bought out yesty
[13:19:26] <+codehead> too cheap, i think, but sitll 60% premium
[13:19:45] <+codehead> my lt frame can turn up now
[13:19:57] <+codehead> see what happens on pb
[13:20:29] <@wrbtrader> Oil
for some stability at this leve
[13:23:44] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[13:47:06] <+codehead> longer frames getting in a place were mkt can reverse
[14:16:33] <+werner> Long NQ @ 2204.75
[14:22:28] <+werner> Exited all NQ Long @ 2204.00 --> - 0.75
[14:25:45] <+codehead> dollar rocking
[14:29:38] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 767.60 -> small size
[14:29:51] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 767.00 -> Add
[14:30:11] <@wrbtrader> TF skipping through levels on 1 contract trades
[14:30:31] <+werner> look out maybe sup nq here
[14:30:38] <@wrbtrader> tough entries when it does that because it can do the same just as easy on a retracement
[14:30:55] <@wrbtrader> 2 contracts total
[14:31:11] <+Sidhartha> intution wrbtrader...
[14:31:36] <@wrbtrader> support break
[14:33:20] <@wrbtrader> Covered 1/2 TF Short @ 767.00 --> 0
[14:33:37] <@wrbtrader> Covered Remainder TF Short @ 767.20 --> + 0.4
[14:33:49] <+LP> 10year down big again
[14:34:34] <+LP> yep no inflation, sure
[14:35:34] <+werner> Long NQ @ 2198.50
[14:37:13] <+werner> Long NQ @ 2197. -> Add
[14:37:32] <+werner> Long NQ @ 2197.50 -> Add
[14:37:39] <+werner> sorry
[14:38:54] <+LP> load that boat
[14:44:14] <@wrbtrader> just finish fixing my printer...took most of the day to fix it
[14:50:44] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[14:53:58] <+werner> Exited all NQ Long @ 2198.00 --> 0
[14:54:31] <@wrbtrader> Emini TF trying for another support break
[14:54:44] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 766.00 -> small size
[14:54:50] <+werner> yep
[14:54:51] <@wrbtrader> 3 contracts
[14:55:10] <@wrbtrader> too early on this one
[14:56:45] <@wrbtrader>
[14:56:47] <@wrbtrader> geeesh
[14:57:56] <@wrbtrader> Covered 1/3 TF Short @ 765.90 --> + 0.1
[14:58:23] <@wrbtrader> Covered Remainder TF Short @ 766.00 --> 0
[14:59:57] <+codehead> could get a vegas setup in ES on cci
[15:00:17] <+codehead> and that's a support in NQ
[15:00:19] <+werner> Long NQ @ 2198.00
[15:01:11] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 766.40 -> small size
[15:01:16] <+werner> Long NQ @ 2198.50 -> Add
[15:01:19] <@wrbtrader> 2 contracts
[15:02:03] <@wrbtrader> increasing volatility...I hope it last for another 2 minds
[15:04:07] <+werner> exit 2203 here
[15:04:23] <+werner> a bot greedy
[15:04:28] <+werner> bit
[15:05:15] <+werner> i see tf ym and es res here so brrr
[15:05:49] <+werner> but i think the leader is nq
[15:08:12] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 767.40 --> + 1
[15:14:32] <+werner> must go now ....
...stops are in target also
[15:30:08] <+Sidhartha> just been looking at the time & sales on TF... my god. it's pathetic
[15:30:22] <+Sidhartha> biggest trade i've seen is a 6 lot...
[15:30:42] <+Sidhartha> the depth on the order book is very deceptive relative to what actually trades...
[15:36:06] <@wrbtrader> Emini TF on the ICE was arbed and spread traded when it was known as ER2 on the CME
[15:36:55] <@wrbtrader> Now that it's on ICE it's not arbed or spread traded as much reason why the LOT size has declined dramatically
[15:36:56] <+Sidhartha> you look at the order book and you think some good volume must be moving it... alot of those bids and offers must be fake
[15:37:16] <@wrbtrader> Yes...too much faking going on consistently.
[15:38:00] <@wrbtrader> I still can't make sense of why I see traders showing offers from 10 - 50 contracts and then only execute 1 - 2 contracts.
[15:38:00] <+Sidhartha> maybe a lot of high frequency guys on the order book... they like to play those games
[15:38:04] <@wrbtrader> It's just weird
[15:38:48] <+Sidhartha> kinda frustrating day... lots of volatility... haven't really caught much of it...
[15:38:56] <@wrbtrader> If so...why would the high frequency guys only execute 1 - 2 contract trades?
[15:39:30] <@wrbtrader> Only thing I can think of is that when I see consistently 1 contract trades in a roll like 5 to 10 consecutive execuations...
[15:39:57] <@wrbtrader> It's someone unloading automated 5 to 10 contracts at 1 contract per trade
[15:40:23] <@wrbtrader> or accumulating
[15:40:46] <+Sidhartha> well, i don't know what strategies they are using... one thing a lot of high frequency guys do is 'ping' the order book with 1 lots to see what it does to price... the theory being they pay the risk of a one lot to get infomation on how it alters the order book...
[15:41:23] <@wrbtrader> Well...those 1 lot ping trades OFTEN control the price action in Emini TF
[15:41:25] <@wrbtrader>
[15:41:35] <+Sidhartha> then of course the play the bid offer game... just turning over trying to play both sides for a tick...
[15:41:47] <@wrbtrader> that's where my frustration comes into play
[15:41:52] <+Sidhartha> which when your costs are basicallty zero, those ticks add up
[15:42:56] <+Sidhartha> the TF is kinda like an arabian horse... very easily spooked...
[15:43:41] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 769.20 -> small size
[15:43:45] <@wrbtrader> 2 contracts
[15:43:58] <@wrbtrader> I'm trying to control the price action with my 2 contracts...
[15:44:11] <@wrbtrader> Throw in a few more and I should be able to control the market
[15:44:23] <@wrbtrader> see that drop
[15:44:23] <+Sidhartha> nice!
[15:44:26] <+Sidhartha> yup
[15:44:27] <@wrbtrader> I did that
[15:44:30] <+Sidhartha> on how much...
[15:44:40] <@wrbtrader> impressive huh
[15:44:44] <@wrbtrader> just kidding
[15:45:09] <@wrbtrader> not sure why TF is spilling its guts right now.
[15:45:23] <@wrbtrader> I was only looking for a few ticks and may get a few points
[15:45:35] <+Sidhartha> this is what I don't understand... volume on my chart says 1200 contracts just traded in that bar
[15:46:09] <@wrbtrader> Covered 1/2 TF Short @ 767.20 --> + 2
[15:47:43] <@wrbtrader> Sid...you talking about the volume interval from 3:45pm - 3:46pm est
??
[15:48:12] <+Sidhartha> yes
[15:49:44] <@wrbtrader> Not much volume in comparison to an earlier volume spike bar that was only 2 - 3 ticks wide
[15:50:13] <@wrbtrader> volume analysis in TF is very deceptive
[15:50:50] <+Sidhartha> yeah I'm not analysing... just saying looking at the T&S doesn't seem to show that kind of volume... maybe I'm just missing it
[15:51:56] <@wrbtrader> emini ES showed a volume spike whereas Emini TF did not although both produced an "expansion interval"
[15:57:22] <@wrbtrader> Covered Remainder TF Short @ 766.90 --> + 2.3
[15:59:03] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 767.00 -> small size
[15:59:15] <@wrbtrader> 2 contracts
[15:59:59] <@wrbtrader> intuition
[16:01:23] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 767.50 --> + 0.5
[16:01:50] <@wrbtrader> Geeesh...I've missed several directional price actions today and still manage to get +1k profits = good overall volatility today although the volume was crappy.
[16:04:04] <+Sidhartha> i'm outta here... goodnight all
[16:07:35] <@wrbtrader> Take care all and see all tomorrow
[16:07:40] * wrbtrader is now known as wrbtrader_away
[16:08:32] <+LP> to all a good day
[16:20:45] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
Session Close: Wed Dec 15 16:58:06 2010
-------------------------
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Therefore, we welcome
all traders with their own trade signal methods, different perspective of the markets and different experience levels. To gain access to #FuturesTrades...please follow the instructions at the below link.
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum/viewforum.php?f=5The purpose of #FuturesTrades is that it's designed to be a
trade journal for documentation purposes only so that members can have a time stamp archive of trades and market commentaries of each trading day so that they can better understand their broker statements from one trade to the next trade when they review their performance numbers on any given trading day.
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Commonly discussed trading instruments from futures, exchange traded funds and forex currencies:
CME Emini Futures EMD, ES and NQ
ICE Emini TF Futures (formerly CME ER2)
CBOT mini-sized Dow Futures YM
Eurex Index Derivatives (futures) DAX and DJ Euro Stoxx50
Eurex Fixed Income Derivatives (futures) BUND, BOBL and Schatz
Euronext Futures FTSE-100 and CAC-40
CME Futures EuroFX 6E and EC
Treasury Futures T-Notes ZT, ZN, ZF and T-Bonds ZB
Forex Currencies GbpUsd, EurUsd, EurYen and UsdCdn
Exchange Traded Funds VXX, DIA, IWM, QQQQ, SPY, BGU, FAS, FAZ, TNA, OIH, XLE and GLD
NYMEX Energy Futures Light Crude Oil CL, Brent Crude Oil BRN, e-miNY QM and Natural Gas NG
COMEX Metal Futures Gold GC, mini-Gold YG, Copper HG and Silver SI
S&P CNX NIFTY Futures
Hang Seng Index Futures HSI and mini-Hang Seng MHI
Also, to prevent the usual mix-up about our different chat rooms, most of our fee-base clients do not use chat rooms just like most retail traders do not use chat rooms. Yet, the few clients that do use chat rooms, our fee-base clients are discussing market analysis or
price action only trade signals via concepts from our strategies in the
private chat rooms called
#VolatilityTradingTSL or
#SwingTradingTSL and they're not allowed to do such in #FuturesTrades.
Reminder, our
Terms of Use (TOU) Policy is a must read to prevent any misunderstandings along with revealing that #FuturesTrades is a serious professional trading chat room and we expect members to act
professional. Also, these logs may have been edited (rarely) to remove any messages that a member has complained to me via private message that they consider a particular commentary to be inappropriate, offending or too far in the off topic area that's a distraction when the commentary was posted.
Note: All logs regardless to their location at TheStrategyLab.com website are eastern standard time. Best Regards,
M.A. Perry
Trader and Founder of
WRB Analysis (wide range body analysis)
Price Action Only Trading (no indicators)
@
http://twitter.com/wrbtrader or http://stocktwits.com/wrbtrader Phone: +1 708 572-4885
Business Hours: 8am - 5pm est (Mon - Fri)
Skype Messenger: kebec2002
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