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Session Start: Mon Oct 25 08:33:04 2010
Session Ident: #FuturesTrades
[08:33:04] * Now talking in #FuturesTrades
[08:33:04] <@X> [NihabaAshi] Announcement: The new trade posting script v3.7 (replaces v3.6) is posted at your forum in the "Announcements" thread.
[08:53:51] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[09:29:34] <drt>
[09:29:58] <pat255>
[09:33:08] <@wrbrader_away> Huge opening gap to the upside on the regular session chart
[09:33:15] * wrbrader_away is now known as wrbtrader
[09:33:35] <+pat255> y dang charts are not refreshing for me
[09:34:25] <+pat255> mkt goes up everyday
[09:39:23] <+pat255> L nq 2118 paper
[09:43:53] <+pat255> out here
[09:47:19] <+pat255> housing report in 10 min fwiw
[09:51:29] <@wrbtrader> Yep and it will be a mover
[09:52:05] <@wrbtrader> meant...we should see good volatility in key markets like Eminis, Oil CL, Gold GC, U.S. Dollar futures
[09:54:15] <+pat255> just buy as usual, i guess
[10:01:16] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 712.50 -> medium size
[10:01:24] <@wrbtrader> 4 only
[10:02:10] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 712.30 --> - 0.2
[10:03:02] <@wrbtrader> trade error...could have been worse
[10:06:11] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 712.40 -> small size
[10:06:16] <@wrbtrader> 2 only
[10:08:59] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 711.50 --> - 0.9
[10:09:56] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 712.30 -> small size
[10:10:13] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 712.50 -> Add
[10:11:21] <@wrbtrader> Exited 1/2 TF Long @ 711.50 --> - 1
[10:11:36] <+pat255>
[10:11:52] <@wrbtrader> Exited Remainder TF Long @ 711.60 --> - 0.7
[10:13:48] <+pat255> still dont want to S
[10:14:15] <@wrbtrader> support being tested
[10:14:43] <+pat255> y on 1m
[10:15:22] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 711.80 -> small size
[10:15:27] <@wrbtrader> 1 + 2
[10:19:20] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 711.70 --> - 0.1
[10:20:11] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 711.40 -> medium size
[10:20:12] <+pat255> just tuff ...:9
[10:20:19] <@wrbtrader> 4 only
[10:20:28] <@wrbtrader> @ support
[10:20:52] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[10:24:26] <Time4now> really consolidating
[10:25:02] <+pat255> looks like ..tuff to trade
[10:33:23] <@wrbtrader> Covered 1/2 TF Short @ 709.90 --> + 1.5
[10:33:44] <+pat255> vn N geez cud not S ..
[10:34:31] <+pat255> was gutsy S...
[10:38:34] <@wrbtrader> Covered Remainder TF Short @ 708.70 --> + 2.7
[10:38:34] <+pat255> had to sit tthru al that consolidation for it to break
[10:41:31] <+pat255> vn N to stick with S ..
[10:41:37] <@wrbtrader>
[10:42:22] <@wrbtrader> Difficult trade to hold because I had to take a very important phone call that I wasn't expecting to get for another 2 hours
[10:42:52] <@wrbtrader> Thus, was talking on the phone while trying to manage that trade
[10:43:01] <+pat255> worked so well ...gutsy to stay with it
[10:45:31] <@wrbtrader> Emini TF at another support via volatility analysis
[10:46:22] <+pat255> y
[11:15:12] <+pat255> L 2115 nq
[11:50:52] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[12:01:04] <+pat255> back to office ty all
[12:45:34] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 707.20 -> small size
[12:45:38] <@wrbtrader> 1 only
[12:46:03] <@wrbtrader> volatility too low to go with more contracts
[12:56:28] <codehead> NQ downward wedge so far
[12:56:53] <+codehead> if 2010 fails, should get some downside
[12:57:40] <@wrbtrader> Exited TF Long @ 707.40 --> + 0.2
[13:01:03] <+codehead> oil dive
[13:05:42] <@wrbtrader> Yeah...it's making it tough for the Emini futures and Eurex futures to get started back upwards
[13:06:03] <+codehead> NQ tryign to break the wedge to upside here
[13:06:33] <+codehead> signals are in a decent place for the possibility
[13:06:51] <+codehead> dented it
[13:07:15] <+codehead> sharp down-moves on oil today
[13:09:39] <+codehead> oil rsi tryign to hook
[13:16:33] <@wrbtrader> volatility increasing
[13:16:50] <@wrbtrader> hopefully price can breakout of this low volatility tight trading range
[13:20:53] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[13:21:08] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 708.40 -> small size
[13:21:15] <@wrbtrader> 1 only
[13:26:04] <+codehead> oil trying bounce
[13:26:08] <+codehead> macd rolling
[13:26:24] <+codehead> rsi crossed (i watch stochastics of rsi actually)
[13:27:47] <@wrbtrader> Exited TF Long @ 708.70 --> + 0.3
[13:28:30] <@wrbtrader> not a planned target...got scared out of the trade
[13:37:52] <+codehead> NQ might get stuck in range for a bit, with that previous top overhead
[14:28:46] <+codehead> well, the oil signal was good
[14:47:53] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[15:11:04] <Inertia> what slipage in ticks do u experience in your trading and in which instrument?
[15:11:31] <+Inertia> q addressed 2 any1
[15:12:16] <+Time4now> simulation - 1 tick allways
[15:12:49] <+Inertia> sorry sim does not count
[15:13:12] <+Inertia> sim is not representative of real market conditions
[15:19:51] <@wrbtrader> You should only experience slippage on particular types of trade orders (e.g. market order)
[15:20:13] <+Inertia> as an example I placed a long STOP on SPY @ 119.01 and I was filled @ 119.02
[15:21:35] <@wrbtrader> That's a "market order" when 119.01 is hit or traveled through
[15:22:01] <+Inertia> i'll try STP LMT orders for a while
[15:22:17] <+Time4now> so there will allways be the possibility of slipage
[15:22:27] <+Time4now> but it can go both ways
[15:22:55] <+Inertia> in theory yes but my experience is that it goes against me most of the time
[15:23:18] <+Time4now> me too, when I was live
[15:24:04] <@wrbtrader> I make an effort to try to Short on upticks and Long on down ticks
[15:24:15] <+Inertia> no it moves, after I chickened out
[15:24:18] <+Inertia>
[15:25:17] <+Inertia> so far left 20 ticks on the table
[15:25:57] <@wrbtrader> Slippage and commission cost is what kills most "scalpers"
[15:25:59] <+Inertia> i have 2 find a solution to this premature exit. (this was written 4 me )
[15:26:44] <+Time4now> do you intentionaly scalp mark?
[15:27:47] <@wrbtrader> No...I rarely go into a trade to scalp
[15:28:16] <+Time4now> good to know
[15:29:40] <@wrbtrader> I would need to get special commission rates, change ISP, switch broker and do auto bracketing to give myself 1/2 a chance at surviving as a scalper.
[15:29:49] <@wrbtrader> It's a tough business to be a scalper
[15:30:03] <@wrbtrader> I don't have the resources for such
[15:30:25] <+Time4now> hmm, you'd think with such small pt's they would have an easier time
[15:30:31] <+Inertia> how do u define scalping Mark?
[15:30:56] <@wrbtrader> I just gave part of the definition via resources needed...which I don't have.
[15:31:38] <@wrbtrader> Another part of the definition is some sort'uv auto trading in place, number of trades to get the special commission rates et cetera
[15:32:03] <@wrbtrader> Most real scalpers I know are doing +50 roundtrips per day
[15:32:24] <+Inertia> and how many ticks r they aiming 4?
[15:32:32] <@wrbtrader> a few ticks
[15:33:28] <@wrbtrader> Anyone can scalp but the question is do they have the proper resources for such...most don't.
[15:33:54] <@wrbtrader> Thus, there's a lot of traders "scalping" that don't even realize they are going to be a loser before the trade entry.
[15:34:17] <@wrbtrader> That's because they don't have the resources in place to succeed
[15:34:18] <+Inertia> if they take many round trips I fail to see why they would need such big resources......
[15:34:27] <@wrbtrader> Big
[15:35:12] <+Inertia> I assumed that from your answer. maybe I missunderstood. maybe you can explain
[15:35:27] <@wrbtrader> What do you mean by "big resources".
[15:35:40] <@wrbtrader> The stuff I mentioned seems like "necessity"
[15:35:41] <+Inertia> i don't know
[15:36:17] <+Time4now> connection speed would be +1
[15:36:21] <+Inertia> u said at one time that u could trade 10 times the size u trade now and you trade a max of 6-9 TF conts
[15:36:32] <@wrbtrader> Yeah...connection speed is very important
[15:36:48] <+Inertia> ok. so I thought u r talking about financial resources not technical
[15:37:33] <@wrbtrader> Hmmm...not sure what you're talking about now.
[15:37:53] <@wrbtrader> Special commission rates is a financial resource
[15:38:00] <+Inertia> I thought that you meant that for scalping u need a lot of $$$
[15:38:10] <+Inertia> yes it is
[15:38:14] <@wrbtrader> Haven't said anything about dollars.
[15:38:32] <@wrbtrader> Just equipment, tools and such.
[15:38:41] <+Inertia> i know u didn't that is why i assumed and asked 4 clarification
[15:38:42] <@wrbtrader> Like I said...anyone can scalp
[15:39:04] <@wrbtrader> Doesn't mean that person has the proper tools in place to succeed before the trade entry
[15:39:36] <+Inertia> i think taht these definitions are misplaced
[15:40:00] <+Inertia> the definitions of scalping , day trading and such
[15:40:26] <+Inertia> since there is no accurate definition or every 1 has his own definition
[15:40:45] <@wrbtrader> There's a lot of definitions out there for scalping, day trading, swing trading, position trading et cetera.
[15:40:59] <+Inertia> if it would b up 2 me I would like 2 b a longer term scalper
[15:41:00] <+Inertia>
[15:41:55] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 707.60 -> small size
[15:41:59] <@wrbtrader> 2 only
[15:44:34] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 706.80 --> - 0.8
[15:44:46] <@wrbtrader> si[[prt brplem
[15:45:01] <@wrbtrader> ooops
[15:45:23] <@wrbtrader> support broken but without other key markets doing the same
[15:45:51] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 706.10 -> small size
[15:45:58] <@wrbtrader> 2 only
[15:47:04] <@wrbtrader> Other key markets support broken now
[15:50:07] <@wrbtrader> Covered all TF Short @ 705.70 --> + 0.4
[15:52:36] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 705.80 -> small size
[15:52:46] <@wrbtrader> 1 only
[15:52:55] <@wrbtrader>
[15:53:35] <@wrbtrader> Exited TF Long @ 705.80 --> 0
[15:53:45] <@wrbtrader> 2nd trade error of the day
[15:53:52] <@wrbtrader> usually have 2 per day
[15:56:04] <@wrbtrader> testing another support now
[15:58:50] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 705.70 -> small size
[15:58:56] <@wrbtrader> 3 only
[16:01:02] <@wrbtrader> disconnected
[16:02:00] <@wrbtrader> got some connection problems on my side
[16:02:16] <+Inertia> 706.7
[16:02:32] <+Inertia> 706.6
[16:02:43] <+Inertia> 706.4
[16:02:54] <+Inertia> did u get back your connection?
[16:02:58] <+Inertia> 706.4
[16:04:50] <@wrbtrader> Exited 1/3 TF Long @ 706.80 --> + 1.1
[16:04:58] <@wrbtrader> Exited 1/3 TF Long @ 706.70 --> + 1
[16:07:02] <@wrbtrader> I think this is as good as it can get on this trade
[16:10:36] <+Time4now> how long did it take before you were profitable?
[16:11:11] <@wrbtrader> I became profitable on my 5th trade today
[16:11:33] <+Time4now> that's not good for me
[16:11:38] <@wrbtrader> First four trades were losers
[16:12:04] <+Time4now> oh, sorry
[16:12:14] <@wrbtrader> Exited Remainder TF Long @ 706.90 --> + 1.2
[16:12:18] <+Time4now> I meant when you were first starting out
[16:13:06] <@wrbtrader> I studied the markets (trading purposes) for 5 years prior to my first trade
[16:13:17] <+Time4now> wowzer
[16:13:26] <@wrbtrader> First year was tough after that was tough
[16:13:51] <@wrbtrader> losing year
[16:14:17] <+Inertia> so u had only 1 losing year?
[16:14:17] <@wrbtrader> Second year was tougher but about breakeven and that's when I "accidentally" came across a mentor.
[16:14:31] <+Inertia> that's great
[16:14:52] <+Time4now> I stumbled across you, so that gives me some hope
[16:15:57] <+Time4now> I only found this channel after looking up someones info on mirc and joined the trading channels they were in
[16:16:05] <+Inertia> in the 1st 5 years how much time did u spend on studying the market?
[16:17:40] <@wrbtrader> I don't think more than a 2k
[16:17:47] <@wrbtrader> just a guess
[16:17:54] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
[16:18:27] <@wrbtrader> I can't remember all the books I had but I had a lot...
[16:18:42] <@wrbtrader> Mostly stuff given to me for free from "floor traders".
[16:18:47] <+Inertia> 2K hours?
[16:19:20] <@wrbtrader> 2k dollars.
[16:19:54] <+Inertia> oh. and how many hours in those 1st 5 years/
[16:20:01] <@wrbtrader> As in hours, don't know how much but I would say at least 2 hours per day
[16:20:14] <@wrbtrader> 5 day's per week
[16:20:28] <+Inertia> so about 2600 hours
[16:20:44] <+Inertia> and the next 2 years how many hours would you estimate?
[16:21:01] <+Time4now> lol, these questions are weird
[16:21:09] <+Inertia> no they r not
[16:21:14] <+Inertia> i have a point to make
[16:21:22] <+Time4now> hard work pays off?
[16:21:40] <+Inertia> just humor me Mark with the hours in the following 2 years...
[16:22:31] <+Inertia> yes it does but that is not my point
[16:24:05] <+Time4now> well if he spent at least 2k hours each year, then he'd reach 10k in 5
[16:24:23] <@wrbtrader> Ask me again next year and I'm sure I'll give you a different answer
[16:24:35] <+Inertia> he said taht he spent 2 hours a day 5 days a week in the 1st 5 years
[16:24:40] <@wrbtrader> That's how vague my memory is about it
[16:24:43] <+Inertia>
))))
[16:25:15] <+Inertia> so in the 1st 5 years 2600 hours
[16:25:44] <+Time4now> oh woops
[16:25:59] <+Inertia> if the next 2 years were full time that would be another 4100 hours (assuming 8 hours a day )
[16:26:03] <+Time4now> wow, it takes a lot to get to 10k
[16:26:14] <+Inertia> so now we are at about 7K hours
[16:27:10] <+Inertia> just guessing but the performance we see now here did not come in year 8 or 9 or 10....
[16:27:28] <+Inertia> by which time Mark has spent OVER 10K hours and that is my point
[16:27:36] <+Inertia> which is not really mine
[16:27:59] <+Inertia> but one needs to spend 10K hours to get to a high level of expertiese
[16:28:03] <+Time4now> well, i've got some studying to do, gn all
[16:28:08] <+Inertia> gn
[16:28:40] <+Inertia> how many people can afford to spend 10K hours full time studying to trade and lose some $$ along the way???
[16:29:09] <+Inertia> with that said, I am not giving up.
[16:37:41] <+Inertia> gn
[17:44:54] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders of Emini Futures (EMD, TF, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (6E, EC), Eurex/Euronext Futures (DAX, ESTX50, FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY) and Forex Currencies
-------------------------
#FuturesTrades is
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Commonly discussed trading instruments from futures, exchange traded funds and forex currencies:
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