#FuturesTrades is
free along with being a serious professional trading chat room and any trader can use the chat room to post their trades or commentaries involving futures, exchange traded funds or forex currencies.
This is not a signal calling chat room nor is the chat room designed to be educational. #FuturesTrades is designed to be a
trade journal for documentation purposes only so that members can have a time stamp archive of trades and market commentaries of each trading day so that they can better understand their broker statements from one trade to the next trade when they review their performance numbers on any given trading day. Yet, you will see members providing useful
trading tips that may or may not help with your trading.
Therefore, we welcome all traders with their own methods or different perspective of the markets as long as they do not violate our
Terms of Use (TOU) Policy.
Thanks for reading the trades or market commentaries that's below and it's highly recommend you make reading of the logs a part of your trading routine because you will sometimes find useful
trading tips not discussed anywhere else online nor in any books.
Posted by M.A. Perry
Trader and Founder of
WRB Analysis (wide range body analysis)
------------------------
Session Start: Mon Jun 28 09:25:01 2010
Session Ident: #FuturesTrades
[09:25] * Now talking in #FuturesTrades
[09:25] <@X> [NihabaAshi] Announcement: The new trade posting script v3.7 (replaces v3.6) is posted at your forum in the "Announcements" thread.
[09:27] <drt>
everyone
[09:27] * drt is now known as dodo
[09:27] <Inertia>
[09:29] <pat255>
all
[09:29] <+pat255> @office today & prolly all this week
[09:32] <+pat255> L 73.5 paper
[09:34] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 640.80 -> medium size
[09:34] <@wrbtrader> 4 only
[09:37] <+pat255> out -1 es
[09:37] <@wrbtrader> taking some heat on this trade
[09:37] <@wrbtrader> Only because the trade signal is still intact
[09:38] <@wrbtrader> In hindsight...would have been better to take a quick small loss and then re-enter the Long position at a much better price
[09:40] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 639.20 --> - 1.6
[09:41] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 639.60 -> large size
[09:41] <@wrbtrader> 6 only
[09:41] <@wrbtrader> support failure
[09:42] <+pat255> y .
[09:42] <@wrbtrader>
[09:43] <+pat255> working well N
[09:43] <@wrbtrader> it's at another weak support level
[09:44] <@wrbtrader> buyers could show up suddenly to take me out of the trade
[09:45] <@wrbtrader> I'm also missing some data from a few of my key markets...making it a little difficult to manage my trades
[09:45] <+pat255> N u are gutsy to take the S at that lower level ..vn
[09:46] <@wrbtrader> Covered 1/2 TF Short @ 636.50 --> + 3.1
[09:54] <@wrbtrader> Covered TF Short @ 636.00 --> + 3.6
[09:54] <@wrbtrader> Holding 2 contract remainders
[09:54] <+pat255> vvn
[09:55] <Time4now> 635.8 was a s/r for last week for me
[09:55] <@wrbtrader> I should have exited that contract when it first tested the 636 but had another trade management problem due to the missing data
[09:58] <+Inertia> it's interesting that after a long period of no signals we start to c setups that don't exsist.
[09:58] <+pat255> great trade N ..
[10:01] <@wrbtrader> Covered Remainder TF Short @ 638.00 --> + 1.6
[10:02] <+pat255> L 1070 esw
[10:03] <+Time4now> having some problems, be back later
[10:04] <@wrbtrader> Yeah...me too...may need to do a reboot of my entire network
[10:05] <+pat255> out -1 again
[10:19] <@wrbtrader> Family went to fly fishing in the Jacques-Cartier Valley in the middle in the Jacques-Cartier River...about a 20 min drive north of my condo at the ski resort...
[10:19] <@wrbtrader> Got a hook in the back of my neck by the 3 year old
[10:19] <Time4now> lol
[10:19] <@wrbtrader> took about 15 mins to remove it
[10:20] <+Time4now> I would not trust kids fly fishing
[10:20] <@wrbtrader> Yeah...learned my lesson the hard way
[10:21] <+Time4now> that is more of an artful form of fishing
[10:33] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum[10:41] <@wrbtrader> Time4now...yes...exactly.
[10:41] <@wrbtrader> The spouse and 7 year old took 2 years to learn it after about 10 trips.
[10:43] <+Time4now> perhaps next time you can give them barbless hooks, much easier to remove from skin
[10:56] <@wrbtrader> yeap
[10:58] <@wrbtrader> price action creaping higher on low volatility after 1035am est
[11:02] <+Inertia> volume seems low for this time of day
[12:03] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum[12:29] <codehead> NQ bounced off .382 fib exact, 1840.00
[12:38] <+Inertia> based on some currency pairs we r going down but my bias is up
[12:39] <+Inertia> and having a bias is a BAD thing
[12:40] <+codehead> YM hit a dbl fib at 10082
[12:41] <+codehead> dang, wqas waiting to long 10083, but my dang auible tick extreme alarm screaming "ooooh nooo!" made me hesitate
[12:41] <+codehead> lol
[12:41] <+codehead> sheesh, perfect
[12:42] <+codehead> was .500 and .618
[12:43] <+codehead> dual fib
[12:43] <+Inertia> currencies pausing. maybe my bias will prevail but I will not do anything unless I get a valid signal
[12:45] <+Inertia> this trading business looks more like a session at the shrink
[12:50] <+codehead> if 10082 breaks, 10065-67 next
[12:50] <+codehead> supp
[13:33] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum[13:39] <+Inertia> I must be possessed. I took 2 trades without any reason and my entries were against my rules.
[13:40] <+Inertia> I want 2 pull whatever hair I got left out
[13:40] <+Inertia> this is insane. now I am in revenge mode. I feel it .
[13:40] <Sidhartha> put your trading mittens on...
[13:41] <+Sidhartha> they will stop you pressing buttons
[13:41] <+Inertia> i am extremely
[13:41] <+Sidhartha> I know the feeling... don't worry
[13:41] <+Inertia> it's not the system that will make me $$ but my head
[13:42] <+Inertia> that upword bias that I had, clouded my judgement
[13:42] <+Inertia> and if we start really 2 move up, I'll b afraid 2 pull the trigger
[13:43] <+codehead> need to get mindset that executing you trade criteria is a victory
[13:43] <+codehead> whether for a loss or gain
[13:43] <+codehead> i think i've managed to kill the revenge trade urge in me, at least haven't resorted to it in a whilde
[13:44] <+codehead> my chat buddy is down abotu $300 today, from taking a small loss then revenge trades that weren't
[13:44] <+codehead> based on his criteria
[13:44] <+Inertia> we r sitting in this room and watch a person trade emotionlessly and wonder about his method. It is NOT his method. It is the fact that he is detached from the trade.
[13:45] <+codehead> funny that i can trade stocks like that, but have had trouble with futys
[13:46] <+Inertia> i wonder if there are non perscription Beta Blockers that one can buy......
[13:46] <+Sidhartha> so how do you stay detatched from the 'trade' (which really means detatched from the P&L)...
[13:47] <+Inertia> I don't know
[13:47] <+Inertia> I think that CH's idea is a good one
[13:48] <+Sidhartha> which idea...
[13:49] <+Sidhartha> about executing to the criteria...
[13:50] <+Inertia> [13:44:56] <codehead> need to get mindset that executing you trade criteria is a victory
[13:50] <+Sidhartha> right
[13:50] <+Sidhartha> but, to do that, you need to be emotionally untouched by your P&L... or at least untouched enough that it doesn't force you to break your criteria...
[13:50] <+Sidhartha> that's the entire conundrum...
[13:51] <+Sidhartha> we've spoken about this...
[13:51] <+codehead> yes indeed
[13:51] <+Sidhartha> essentially you have to go through a process of building confidence in your ability to execute the plan
[13:51] <+codehead> i know my current problem is down to lack of other source of income at the moment
[13:51] <+Sidhartha> how do you that...
[13:52] <+Sidhartha> right... i can understand that
[13:52] <+codehead> but otherwise, emotionally i'm pretty stable in a trade
[13:52] <+Sidhartha> Inertia and I have spoken about this...
[13:52] <+codehead> and if i stop out, i don't get that urge to insist i'm right and hop right back on a loser--just wait till another setup
[13:53] <+Sidhartha> my idea - and you won't like it (most traders intuitively don't!) is that a specific amount of money has to be put 'aside' and considered 'lost' or considered a 'tuition fee'... I don't know how much... say $5,000...
[13:53] <+codehead> yeah, i agree
[13:54] <+Sidhartha> having mentally accepted that that money is 'lost'... in theory it should allow the trader to simply focus on executing the plan... not worry about the P&L... and see what happens
[13:54] <+codehead> you have to have the understanding that a losing trade is not a failure, but you do have to have some limit where you re-evaluate your trading
[13:54] <+Sidhartha> IF you execute the plan, and IF you make money, you have an experience that can you can build on... a potential mental breakthrough...
[13:55] <+Sidhartha> of course... depending on your financial resources...
[13:56] <+Inertia> sorry was in a trade . entry by the rules exit too soon. target was hit after I got out
[13:56] <+Sidhartha> but I have read alot of trading books - traded for banks for many years, but trading your own money is very different - and every book I have read says the same thing... you can basically only learn to trust yourself as a trader by trading with money you can afford to lose...
[13:57] <+codehead> 10108 is .500 bounce YM
[13:57] <+codehead> hit
[13:57] <+codehead> 10110
[13:58] <+codehead> maybe trading stocks is more abstract for me, i don't worry tick to tick
[13:58] <+Inertia> i switched completely to LIVE not to be influenced by my success in SIM hopefully that helps
[13:58] <+codehead> i can hold for days, weeks, months... sometimes years
[13:59] <+codehead> in fact, that's one of the things that affects my trading--know i not only need to be right, but i need to be right before mkt close
[15:03] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum[15:15] <+codehead> how you doing today gabe?
[15:17] <+codehead> finding my biggest problem lately is not entries, but wrestling with myself over stops
[15:18] <+codehead> whether to put a small (incremental) one, or just a breakdown stop--a spot where i'd conceded that the signal failed
[15:18] <+codehead> the latter would hit rarely
[15:18] <+codehead> but obviously bigger bite
[15:28] <+Inertia> i am losing my shirt
[15:28] <+Inertia> -93$
[15:28] <+Inertia> that's an expensive shirt
[15:29] <+Inertia> 12 trades 6 winners 6 losers
[15:29] <+codehead> k, you are taking the trades, good
[15:30] <+Inertia> but my losers............. ouch
[15:30] <+Inertia> one is half my daily loss
[15:30] <+Inertia> i have no idea why i kept it
[15:30] <+codehead> waffled too much on entries, myself--totally about stops
[15:30] <+Inertia> i don't think that i had 4 entries by my rules
[15:31] <+codehead> ended up deciding to get short, expected top of hour bond close to gett some selling, and retest red/green lines on indices
[15:31] <+Inertia> i am looking at my screen captures and - WHAT WAS I THINKING?????
[15:31] <+Inertia> I ran out of pot, so that's not it...
[15:32] <+codehead> lol
[15:32] <+Inertia> boose is gone 2
[15:32] <+Inertia> everyday I get up and i promise myself - TODAY IS THE DAY THAT I WILL FOLLOW MY RULES
[15:32] <+codehead> well, i took trade, then for no good reason tightened stop and tapped out, tho i grabbed it back and took a little to get even
[15:32] <+Inertia> 2-3 hours later..... u know what happened
[15:32] <+codehead> need ot start taking signals earlier in the day
[15:33] <+codehead> yeah i hear ya
[15:33] <+codehead> figgered the close would be about the red/green fight
[15:33] <+codehead> dow tapped flat and bounced a little
[15:34] <+codehead> naz got within a pt
[15:34] <+codehead> my indecision is all about stops now
[15:35] <+codehead> whether to be picky enough about entries that i always use a 10 tick (Ym or NQ) stop
[15:35] <+codehead> or, get a position when i knew which direction it's going to go, and put a stop at filure
[15:35] <+codehead> failure
[15:36] <+codehead> "when i know"
[15:36] <+codehead> i would do the latter if i had more cushion, and add when it got a better entry but not the failure stop
[15:37] <+codehead> that would be more like how i used to scalp stocks (mostly swing traded, but would scalp here and there when i saw an op)
[15:39] <+Inertia> maybe I'll program something that will lock-out my mouse and KB if I lose more than 3 trades in a row
[15:39] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 642.40 -> small size
[15:40] <@wrbtrader> 2 only
[15:43] <@wrbtrader> As usual...missed a bulk of the price action today (usually planned that way) but today's reason was purely due to some forum maintenance work that I'm almost completed...
[15:43] <+codehead> the most rational is probably a soft/hard stop
[15:43] <+codehead> have a hard stop limit
[15:43] <@wrbtrader> Just came back to do one more trade prior to going back to the forum maintence work
[15:43] <+codehead> but a smaller soft stop that if it touches, try to get out at scratch
[15:44] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 642.90 --> + 0.5
[15:45] <@wrbtrader> Also, my data problems still remains and I haven't had time to reboot my entire network...will do that only after the market closes today.
[15:48] <+codehead> as an extension to what sid said, i've also considered have a *daily* loss allotment
[15:49] <+codehead> that is (and the problem again is that I keep waffling about stops), if I use my 10-tick fixed stop and only take trades where i can get an entry for which that is reasonable...
[15:49] <+codehead> then i'd said $150 is that allotment
[15:49] <+codehead> so, that would mean that if i start the day with three losers, ($50 each plus commish), i'm done for the day
[15:50] <+codehead> unlikely--i don't expect to get three losers in a row
[15:50] <+codehead> but it's a line in the sand
[15:50] <+codehead> otherwise, keep taking all trade signals till end of day (or -$150)
[15:50] <+Sidhartha> yup. sounds like an idea...
[15:51] <+codehead> expected this fight over red/green for the close
[15:51] <+codehead> now, i've been planning that for a while, but again, i keep waffling over the stops
[15:51] <+codehead> i think i need ot just do the 10 tick on all, and see where it shakes out after a few days
[15:52] <+codehead> today, passed up the major signals (at hod for instance, for roll to short)
[15:52] <+Sidhartha> but what I'm considering doing (not that I want to - I don't like losing money believe me) is giving myself an amount to lose... which I think would last me at least 3 months of solid trading... unless I totally blow up (which I don't think I will)... and indeed, I'm hopeful if I can trade free of emotion but with discipline that I will actually make money...
[15:52] <+codehead> for which 10 ticks would have been plenty
[15:52] <+codehead> yeah, i hear ya
[15:53] <+codehead> actually, my emotions aren't too bad any more
[15:53] <+codehead> mostly the entry indecision regarding stop
[15:54] <+codehead> i have platform set up for 10 tick stop/target, one-cancels-all
[15:54] <+Sidhartha> yeah, but that's all driven by emotion too... in my experience...
[15:54] <+codehead> if i alt-click the trade
[15:54] <+Sidhartha> fear of loss generally
[15:54] <+codehead> i think i jsut need ot alt-click my trades, and if i sotp out but see it was right, re-enter
[15:54] <+Sidhartha> I micro manage my stops too much and have a tendancy to tighten them to quick and too aggressively
[15:54] <+codehead> yep, did that today
[15:54] <+Sidhartha> all driven by fear
[15:55] <+codehead> ended up tightening to 3 tick stop, at a point that invited a stop-run-test
[15:55] <+Sidhartha> bet you don't do it in SIM...
[15:55] <+codehead> i don't do sim lately
[15:55] <+codehead> i only post paper trades when for some reason i can't get myself to take it (maybe stop indecision)
[15:56] <+Sidhartha> no, but when you did... bet you were a heck of a lot more relaxed about your stops...
[15:56] <+codehead> i've traded stocks a lot, i don't have any fear trading stocks...
[15:56] <+codehead> so, whether i have any in sim--naw
[15:57] <+codehead> but no satisfaciton either
[15:57] <+Sidhartha> yeah
[15:58] <+codehead> so, i miscalculated my get-even trade, and close the day -$3 (including commish, should have been a tick lower)
[15:58] <+Sidhartha> you know it's funny... I told gabe... before I started day trading, I was swing trading my own account... and swinging some decent size... $5,000 daily P&L swing didnt bother me in the slightest...
[15:58] <+codehead> well, not a durprise, Ym cahs-close pop
[15:58] <+codehead> yeah
[15:58] <+Sidhartha> day trading I seem SO risk adverse... so fearful of losses...
[15:58] <+Sidhartha> sounds like you
[15:59] <+codehead> when i traded stocks, i'd hve +20k up days, -5-=10k down days, didn't bug be one bit
[16:01] <+codehead> thing is about futs, people (read "me") tend to get a paranoia that the big boys are going to trick me out of $
[16:01] <+codehead> lol
[16:01] <+Sidhartha> yup... can't understand it... I can only assume it's because when day trading you are watching your P&L way more closely than swing trading...
[16:01] <+codehead> i mean, you enter a trade that is "right"
[16:01] <+Sidhartha> you = we
[16:01] <+codehead> price gets a little spike to take out stop, then screams your way
[16:01] <+codehead> lol yeah
[16:01] <+codehead> was in webinar last week
[16:01] <+codehead> Al Brooks
[16:02] <+codehead> he said his trading goal is "to take money out of your account"
[16:02] <+codehead> lol
[16:02] <+Sidhartha> ha
[16:02] <+Sidhartha> thanks
[16:02] <+codehead> he trades with one 5 min chart, 20 ema only, shuts out phone, tv, all news
[16:03] <+Sidhartha> yeah
[16:03] <+codehead> says he'll see news in the price action
[16:03] <+Sidhartha> right now I'm wathcing brazail vs chile football!
[16:03] <+Sidhartha> ha
[16:03] <+Sidhartha> well, i believe that... i think if you know when the market events are you don;t need to know much else
[16:04] <+Sidhartha> it's all in the price
[16:04] <+Sidhartha> but you need to know if you are about to take a position into a figure...
[16:04] <+Sidhartha> a lot of games played around figures... fake outs etc
[16:04] <+codehead> yeah
[16:05] <+codehead> after a while, you learn the games
[16:05] <+codehead> when we were going up strong into top of the hour...
[16:05] <+Sidhartha> yeah... the reversal game!
[16:05] <+codehead> 3:00 EDT
[16:05] <+codehead> i knew, was way too early for a strong close on a flat day
[16:05] <+codehead> and timing was such that it was setting up for selloff at top of hour
[16:05] <+codehead> to a flat-line retest
[16:06] <+Sidhartha> Ch, you try zero line trader yet...
[16:06] <+codehead> no, i looked at it
[16:06] <+Sidhartha> any good...
[16:06] <+Sidhartha> I still don't have my IB account funded...
[16:06] <+codehead> i guess need ot look at it more--reverted to old version of TWS
[16:06] <+codehead> seems to be very well liked
[16:06] <+Sidhartha> yeah does look like the best DOM I have seen for IB
[16:07] <+codehead> my fib number was 1833.00 NQ, it managed to tap 1833.25 at close
[16:07] <+Sidhartha> right guys, i'm outta here for a little run... clear the mind, live in the moment a little... rather than trying to predict the future!!!
[16:07] <+Sidhartha> c u tomorrow
[16:07] <+codehead> cya
[16:30] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forumSession Close: Mon Jun 28 22:00:01 2010
-------------------------
#FuturesTrades is
free and is a serious professional trading chat room in which any trader can use the chat room to post their trades or commentaries involving futures, exchange traded funds or forex currencies. Simply, you don't need to be a client of TheStrategyLab.com to use the chat room nor do you need to be a price action only trader (no indicators) because some members use indicators while others do not.
Therefore, we welcome all traders with their own methods and different perspective of the markets. To gain access to #FuturesTrades...please follow the instructions at the below link.
http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum/viewforum.php?f=5The purpose of #FuturesTrades is that it's designed to be a
trade journal for documentation purposes only so that members can have a time stamp archive of trades and market commentaries of each trading day so that they can better understand their broker statements from one trade to the next trade when they review their performance numbers on any given trading day.
Further, members are not obligated to educate nor help other members but members are encourage to ask questions about any trades or market commentaries that's posted by others.
In addition, our primary job in the
free chat room is to moderate the room (keep the peace) because with so many members using different methods along with different opinions about the market...debates or arguments can easily flare up without moderating. In addition, our presence in the chat room is to ensure it's a
spam free chat room during trading although these archived chat logs may contain advertisments for guest visitors. More information about #FuturesTrades @
http://www.thestrategylab.com/FuturesTradesChatRoom.htm Commonly discussed trading instruments from futures, exchange traded funds and forex currencies:
CME Emini Futures EMD, ES and NQ
ICE Emini TF Futures (formerly CME ER2)
CBOT mini-sized Dow Futures YM
Eurex Index Derivatives (futures) DAX and DJ Euro Stoxx50
Eurex Fixed Income Derivatives (futures) BUND, BOBL and Schatz
Euronext Futures FTSE-100 and CAC-40
CME Futures EuroFX 6E and EC
Treasury Futures T-Notes ZT, ZN, ZF and T-Bonds ZB
Forex Currencies GBPUSD, EurUsd, EurYen and UsdCdn
Exchange Traded Funds VXX, DIA, IWM, QQQQ, SPY, BGU, FAS, FAZ, TNA, OIH, XLE and GLD
NYMEX Energy Futures Light Crude Oil CL, e-miNY QM and Natural Gas NG
COMEX Metal Futures Gold GC, mini-Gold YG, Copper HG and Silver SI
Hang Seng Index Futures HSI and mini-Hang Seng MHI
Also, to prevent the usual mix-up about our different chat rooms, most of our fee-base clients do not use chat rooms just like most retail traders do not use chat rooms. Yet, the few clients that do use chat rooms, our fee-base clients are discussing market analysis or trade signals via concepts from our strategies in the
private chat rooms called
#VolatilityTradingTSL or
#SwingTradingTSL and they're not allowed to do such in #FuturesTrades.
Reminder, our
Terms of Use (TOU) Policy is a must read to prevent any misunderstandings along with revealing that #FuturesTrades is a serious professional trading chat room and we expect members to act
professional. Also, these logs may have been edited (rarely) to remove any messages that a member has complained to me via private message that they consider a particular commentary to be inappropriate, offending or too far in the off topic area that's a distraction when the commentary was posted.
Note: All logs regardless to their location at TheStrategyLab.com website are eastern standard time. Best Regards,
M.A. Perry
Trader and Founder of
WRB Analysis (wide range body analysis)
@
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