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 Post subject: June 10th Thursday - Futures, ETFs and Forex Currencies
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Trader / Forum Admin

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:02 am
Posts: 3326
Location: Canada
#FuturesTrades is free along with being a serious professional trading chat room and any trader can use the chat room to post their trades or commentaries involving futures, exchange traded funds or forex currencies.

This is not a signal calling chat room nor is the chat room designed to be educational. #FuturesTrades is designed to be a trade journal for documentation purposes only so that members can have a time stamp archive of trades and market commentaries of each trading day so that they can better understand their broker statements from one trade to the next trade when they review their performance numbers on any given trading day. Yet, you will see members providing useful trading tips that may or may not help with your trading.

Therefore, we welcome all traders with their own methods or different perspective of the markets as long as they do not violate our Terms of Use (TOU) Policy.

Thanks for reading the trades or market commentaries that's below and it's highly recommend you make reading of the logs a part of your trading routine because you will sometimes find useful trading tips not discussed anywhere else online nor in any books.

Posted by M.A. Perry
Trader and Founder of WRB Analysis (wide range body analysis)

------------------------

Image

Session Start: Thu Jun 10 08:28:17 2010
Session Ident: #FuturesTrades
[08:28] * Now talking in #FuturesTrades
[08:28] <@X> [NihabaAshi] Announcement: The new trade posting script v3.7 (replaces v3.6) is posted at your forum in the "Announcements" thread.
[08:28] * wrbtrader is now known as wrbtrader_away
[08:31] <Time4now> anyone else get a massive lower shadow just now?
[08:51] <Inertia> not all time frames exhibit the same candle patterns
[08:51] <+Inertia> what time frame r u on?
[08:53] <+Inertia> just got back from the airport so missed the news which seems 2 b mixed
[08:53] <Sidhartha> bit shadow on TF
[08:53] <+Sidhartha> 2 min
[08:54] <+Inertia> lowe trade deficit but higher unemployment claims
[08:54] <+Sidhartha> to be honest, i'm not a beig fan of the price action around 0830 figs... it often seems misleading to me
[08:54] <+Time4now> when news broke, i got a shadow on tf extending to 616.5
[08:54] <+Sidhartha> beig = big
[08:54] <+Inertia> but what time frame?
[08:55] <+Sidhartha> i got the same 616.5 low
[08:55] <+Time4now> thanks
[08:55] <+Inertia> a long shadow on a 15 min chart can look like normal candles on a 3 minute chart
[09:16] * wrbtrader_away is now known as RacerX
[09:23] * RacerX is now known as wrbtrader
[09:26] <+Sidhartha> RacerX...?
[09:27] <@wrbtrader> That's my laptop user name
[09:27] <+Sidhartha> ahh
[09:33] <@wrbtrader> Big gap to the upside in several key markets
[09:35] <+Sidhartha> ohh yeah
[09:42] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 626.50 -> small size
[09:42] <@wrbtrader> 3 only
[09:44] <@wrbtrader> :(
[09:45] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum
[09:46] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 627.20 --> + 0.7
[09:50] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 628.10 -> small size
[09:50] <@wrbtrader> 3 only
[09:50] <@wrbtrader> intuition
[09:51] <@wrbtrader> geeesh
[09:51] <@wrbtrader> tricky price action
[09:57] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 629.70 --> + 1.6
[10:12] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 627.80 -> small size
[10:12] <@wrbtrader> 3 only
[10:21] <@wrbtrader> can't see what is keeping this thing up
[10:23] <Time4now> EIA Natural Gas Report 10:30 AM ET
[10:23] <@wrbtrader> thanks
[10:23] <@wrbtrader> completely forgot about that
[10:24] <+Time4now> :D
[10:24] <@wrbtrader> Covered all TF Short @ 627.70 --> + 0.1
[10:25] <+Time4now> and i helped
[10:31] <+Sidhartha> seen 3 nice setups today... struggled to get into any of them
[10:31] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 628.00 -> small size
[10:31] <@wrbtrader> 2 only
[10:31] <+Sidhartha> might have to notch up the aggressiveness of my chase plans
[10:31] <@wrbtrader> intuition (chasing)
[10:35] <@wrbtrader> should'uv been Long around 627.00
[10:36] <@wrbtrader> Going to take a break after I close this position.
[10:36] <+Sidhartha> that's quite an aggressive chase wrbtrader...
[10:36] <@wrbtrader> I've noticed I've been getting more "frustrated" today than normal.
[10:36] <+Sidhartha> think I need to be more aggressive at times... a little less conservative off strong signals
[10:39] <@wrbtrader> Exited all TF Long @ 628.30 --> + 0.3
[10:39] <@wrbtrader> be back later
[10:40] * wrbtrader is now known as wrbtrader_away
[10:40] <+Time4now> had a buy at 627.8
[10:40] <+Time4now> just missed it
[10:44] <+Time4now> I think i need a nap
[11:15] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum
[12:45] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum
[13:55] <gabe> Shorts TF @ 628.50
[13:59] <+gabe> Covered all TF Short @ 628.30 --> + 0.2
[14:05] <+gabe> :(
[14:08] <+gabe> missed the re-entry
[14:11] <+gabe> had no reason to get out to begin with other than being impatient
[14:15] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum
[14:18] <+gabe> Long TF @ 627.50
[14:22] <+gabe> Exited all TF Long @ 628.50 --> + 1
[14:32] <+Inertia> why do charts look different when I am in a trade as opposed to when I am out of a trade? They are much clearer when I am out of a trade :)
[14:37] <+gabe> nerves kick in bluring our focus :) ... try taking deep breaths to relax
[14:38] <+gabe> again there was no confirm to get out of the long
[14:40] <+Inertia> I did this several times 2day
[14:40] <+Inertia> get out for no reason
[14:40] <+Inertia> anyway
[14:41] <+Inertia> triple top for 2day ~634 if we don't go through it but i have a feeling that we will
[14:42] <+gabe> everything I see is showing uptrend ... I have a hard time staying in these slower moves
[14:51] <+gabe> tick is showing signs of reversal
[15:02] <+gabe> chickened out of a short signal at 33.40 :(
[15:08] * wrbtrader_away is now known as wrbtrader
[15:11] <+gabe> Long TF @ 632.50
[15:13] <+gabe> Exited all TF Long @ 632.00 --> - 0.5
[15:18] <+gabe> Long TF @ 632.70
[15:19] <+gabe> Exited all TF Long @ 633.70 --> + 1
[15:26] <+gabe> cant seem to break 634
[15:27] <+Inertia> [14:41:18] <Inertia> triple top for 2day ~634
[15:27] <+Inertia> :)
[15:27] <+Inertia> maybe now it is support
[15:28] <+Inertia> I am sweating
[15:28] <+Inertia> totaly stressed out
[15:29] <+gabe> Shorts TF @ 632.30
[15:30] <codehead> unbelievable--was transferred to my third tech support guy at IB, and the line drops when then transfer me to him
[15:30] <+Inertia> their customer serveice is 4 the birds
[15:30] <+Inertia> commisions is the only reason 2 b with them
[15:31] <+codehead> and you can trade everything from them
[15:31] <+Inertia> y
[15:31] <+Inertia> their chart suck also
[15:31] <+Inertia> charts
[15:32] <+Inertia> [15:29:09] <gabe> Shorts TF @ 632.30 >> I did not understand where u get these numbers. we r not on the same contract :)
[15:33] <+Inertia> I'll switch 2morrow
[15:33] <+Inertia> the volume of the June cont is still higher than the sept one
[15:33] <+gabe> September
[15:34] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 631.80 -> small size
[15:34] <@wrbtrader> 2 only
[15:35] <+gabe> Covered all TF Short @ 631.90 --> + 0.4
[15:35] <@wrbtrader> Covered all TF Short @ 632.20 --> - 0.4
[15:35] <@wrbtrader> had a similar problem earlier today with the same trade
[15:37] <+gabe> :(
[15:39] <@wrbtrader> Shorts TF @ 631.70 -> small size
[15:39] <@wrbtrader> 1 only
[15:39] <+Inertia> I am thinking of forming a Traders Anonymous group if one does not exist. The mental sapect of trading is where the $$$ are
[15:43] <+Sidhartha> meaning....?
[15:45] <+Time4now> I put a sticky note on my monitor saying that I cannot make intuition or gut trades
[15:45] <+Time4now> Can't seem to learn my lesson...
[15:45] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum
[15:45] <+Inertia> most trading coaches and groups teach trading setups and methods but the emphasis should b on the psychology
[15:46] <+Inertia> i believe that even a simple moving average crossover could make $ with the right mind set
[15:46] <+Sidhartha> Inertia... to be fair, I think most traders worth their salt work that out very quickly... after all, mark douglas has written it all before... like 20 years ago
[15:47] <@wrbtrader> I don't think you can properly teach the "psychological aspects" of trading unless its done in person ate the trader's home environment where he/she trades.
[15:47] <+Sidhartha> and I know you've read his book ages ago right...?
[15:47] <@wrbtrader> Most impact is due to stuff in our "personal lives" and that's hard for a trader coach to see of a student through a computer screen.
[15:47] <+Inertia> I bought it a few years ago but it was boring so never read more than 100 pages altogether
[15:48] <+Sidhartha> well, I thought it was an awesome book... literally changed how I approached trading my own money
[15:48] <+codehead> frustrating, even when i was on the phone with IB, i expected the new contract to hit res at 1830.00... anyway, finally figured out the problem after talking to five different tech support guys
[15:49] <@wrbtrader> Long TF @ 633.60 -> small size
[15:49] <@wrbtrader> 3 only
[15:49] <+Sidhartha> I wrote a 6 page summary on the book after I'd finished summarising it all
[15:49] <@wrbtrader> intuition
[15:50] <+Sidhartha> I've read both douglas books
[15:50] <@wrbtrader> same trade as the short...just the opposite direction
[15:50] <+codehead> i could get thru douglas--he really needs and editor
[15:50] <+codehead> couldn't
[15:50] <+codehead> ugh, "an editor"
[15:50] <+Inertia> Schaum should take on that project
[15:51] <+Sidhartha> my view of trading is this... and this is after years at an investment bank doing all sorts of trading and writing proprietary models...
[15:51] <+Sidhartha> pit traders - good ones - know how to manage a trade very well and effectively.. a huge part of that skill is having the psychology ironed out...
[15:52] <@wrbtrader> Exited 2/3 TF Long @ 634.80 --> + 1.2
[15:52] <+Sidhartha> once you've got that, that in itself, is, I believe, enough of an edge to make money in markets..
[15:52] <+Sidhartha> combine that with genuinely good setups, and you should do very well
[15:53] <+Sidhartha> if you can't manage a trade - forget about the setup... you won't make money consistently no matter what setups your using
[15:53] <Tigerman> hi boys
[15:53] <+Tigerman> I noted you speak about psyco and trading :)
[15:53] <+Inertia> so we r on the same page Sid
[15:54] <+Tigerman> I have one idea or two about the subject
[15:54] <@wrbtrader> Exited Remainder TF Long @ 635.00 --> + 1.4
[15:54] <+Tigerman> hood wrb
[15:54] <+Tigerman> I mean good :)
[15:54] <@wrbtrader> I wish it was a lot higher when I exited that remainder :(
[15:55] <@wrbtrader> thought for sure it was going to hit 635.50
[15:55] <@wrbtrader> it just did..without me on board :(
[15:56] <+Tigerman> My view about what talked before: yeah mental side is very important
[15:57] <@wrbtrader> Most traders "don't" believe the mental aspect is important or "underestimate" it's importance.
[15:57] <+Tigerman> but without a real good edge (setup etc.) is very difficult get money on costant basis
[15:57] <@wrbtrader> Sometimes I wonder if there's a connection with that belief that relates to why most traders aren't profitable.
[15:58] <+Sidhartha> Tigerman... I disagree...
[15:58] <@wrbtrader> Thus, would there be more profitable traders if they put more emphasis on the "mental aspect" of trading.
[15:58] <@wrbtrader> I'm willing to guess YES.
[15:59] <+Sidhartha> I have seen studies, when I worked for banks, that showed how trading models could make money from random entries into the market, with the correct trade management strategies...
[15:59] <+Tigerman> yep after you got a strong edge the mental side is where to work on
[15:59] <@wrbtrader> Most of my losing trading days are "directly" related to tension I'm having in my personal life.
[15:59] <+Sidhartha> obviously banks cost of execution is basically zero, so yes retail traders will need a little more edge... but if you can manage a trade really well, I think you need very little edge in terms of setup.
[16:00] <+Inertia> if there is any friction in my life b4 trading starts usually that day ends up as a losing day
[16:00] <+Sidhartha> however, what the setup does give you, is structure..
[16:00] <+Sidhartha> that way you don't go into the bar and fire all six rounds off in 2 mins flat...
[16:01] <+Tigerman> yep sid a solid hedge and a logic where you enter have to be..
[16:01] <+Tigerman> but the mental side cannot be teach
[16:03] <+Time4now> The doom in my trading is when i want to "try" somthing
[16:03] <+Tigerman> yep you can try to learn but most of people not have strong brain to control stress
[16:04] <@wrbtrader> I think the mental aspect can be "resolved" if a coach is at the students trading environment (home) for long periods (minimum of a few weeks) in real trading condition to see what's "really going on" and make recommendations on how to fix it.
[16:04] <+Tigerman> further intraday/scalping is a different beast vs swing etc.
[16:04] <+Tigerman> most not have phisycal to click fast on mouse..:) NOT KIDDING
[16:05] <+codehead> well, that sucked, knew we'd get a cash close pb, but had just spent and hour and half figuring out the problem with IB platform, gave up
[16:06] <+Time4now> how do you bounce back "mentaly" from a losing day?
[16:06] <+Tigerman> yes wrb coaching is great if one have the luxury to have one
[16:07] <+Tigerman> but if the student not have the "inner" strenght to keep the discipline after the coach go home..
[16:07] <+Tigerman> many understimate how FAST very fast one have to be to scalp the market
[16:08] <+Tigerman> and look in REAL time to many monitors and ACT fast on dome to execute trades
[16:09] <+Tigerman> I speak for me because I naturaly biased on scalping
[16:09] <+Inertia> having a background in comp hardware i used 2 measure time in nano seconds. surely trading does not require quick responses of that order of magnitude
[16:09] <+codehead> well, unless you're doing flash trading
[16:09] <+Inertia> also , it would b 2 stressful
[16:10] <+Inertia> CH :))
[16:10] <+Tigerman> belive me or not but only 15 min or fast trading is not for everyone :)
[16:11] <+Inertia> i agree but how fast is fast in your book?
[16:13] <+Tigerman> we can compare with competitive sports,seems easy to play basketball but when play against high level players is another planet so not everyone can play NBA :)
[16:13] <+Inertia> I look @ it this way. how many setups do I c everyday? maybe 10. and to realize a profit will take on average 10 minutes. so I don't have 2 b too fast. I can take my time. the problem is that my brain and fingers act independantly sometimes :(
[16:14] <+Tigerman> yep not easy I I know :)
[16:15] <+Inertia> I would say that using this room as a free Shrink's office by typing what i think and feel, helped
[16:15] <+Tigerman> but for my setups a matters of seconds if decide if enter or not so..
[16:17] <+Tigerman> then we have to consider the mental aspect on manage a trade,trade after a loss
[16:17] <+Tigerman> trading after a winning strike and not act thinking like superman
[16:17] <@wrbtrader> We use to have 2 members in here that were psychologists...
[16:17] <@wrbtrader> One was retired
[16:18] <+Time4now> were they any good?
[16:18] <+Time4now> +h
[16:18] <+Time4now> -h
[16:18] <+Time4now> nm
[16:18] <@wrbtrader> The other stopped trading because he got his dream job after finishing his PhD
[16:18] <@wrbtrader> Time4now...they posted profitable trades
[16:19] <+Tigerman> job on psyco sector ?
[16:19] <@wrbtrader> One guy was from England and the other from Germany
[16:21] <+Inertia> one stats that I would really like 2 know is how many traders who stuck with this business for more than 3 years are actually profitable.
[16:21] <+Time4now> I've heard most fail in their first year
[16:22] <+Inertia> the 95% losers stats is skewed in my opinion b/c most of the losers did not stick with the program for more than a few months
[16:23] <+Inertia> the other thing i would like 2 know is where r the winners getting their winnigs? from other individuals or institutions and hedge funds
[16:24] <+Sidhartha> I don't think you'll ever know 'where' the winnings come from... they come from the market...
[16:24] <+Sidhartha> there are so many people & institutions operating of different time frames and holding periods...
[16:24] <+Sidhartha> it doesn't really matter 'where' the winnings come from
[16:24] <+Inertia> no it does not
[16:24] <+Inertia> i was just curious
[16:25] <+Inertia> as long as my brain comes up with questions >>> I alive :)
[16:25] <+Inertia> I am alive
[16:26] <+Sidhartha> you are alive G!
[16:26] <+Sidhartha> which is good
[16:26] <+Inertia> yes I am :)
[16:26] <+Inertia> thanks
[16:26] <+Sidhartha> we need not ask where the water comes from... all we need do is drop out buckets into the well... ;-)
[16:27] <+Inertia> :))))
[16:27] <+Inertia> I like that
[16:27] <+Sidhartha> out = our
[16:27] <+Inertia> I remeber when my grand father bought me my 1st SLR camera and I took it appart 2 c what's inside
[16:27] <+Inertia> I was curious even then
[16:28] <+Inertia> must have been 12-13 years old
[16:28] <+Inertia> as far as I remember I took everything appart
[16:29] <+Inertia> most of the time I managed to re-assamble things but ended up with some UN-NEEDED components
[16:30] <+Sidhartha> ohh dear
[16:32] <+Inertia> anyway, have a good evening/night every 1
[16:52] <+Tigerman> take care all :)
[17:15] <@X> #FuturesTrades Purpose -> Members use this room to document (trade journal) their trades and thoughts from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information they can't get from broker statements nor statistics. Also, mimicking the trades by others is not recommended. More info about the chat room @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum
Session Close: Thu Jun 10 21:24:03 2010

-------------------------

#FuturesTrades is free and is a serious professional trading chat room in which any trader can use the chat room to post their trades or commentaries involving futures, exchange traded funds or forex currencies. Simply, you don't need to be a client of TheStrategyLab.com to use the chat room nor do you need to be a price action only trader (no indicators) because some members use indicators while others do not.

Therefore, we welcome all traders with their own methods and different perspective of the markets. To gain access to #FuturesTrades...please follow the instructions at the below link.

http://www.thestrategylab.com/ftchat/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

The purpose of #FuturesTrades is that it's designed to be a trade journal for documentation purposes only so that members can have a time stamp archive of trades and market commentaries of each trading day so that they can better understand their broker statements from one trade to the next trade when they review their performance numbers on any given trading day.

Further, members are not obligated to educate nor help other members but members are encourage to ask questions about any trades or market commentaries that's posted by others.

In addition, our primary job in the free chat room is to moderate the room (keep the peace) because with so many members using different methods along with different opinions about the market...debates or arguments can easily flare up without moderating. In addition, our presence in the chat room is to ensure it's a spam free chat room during trading although these archived chat logs may contain advertisments for guest visitors. More information about #FuturesTrades @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/FuturesTradesChatRoom.htm

Commonly discussed trading instruments from futures, exchange traded funds and forex currencies:

Image CME Emini Futures EMD, ES and NQ

Image ICE Emini TF Futures (formerly CME ER2)

Image CBOT mini-sized Dow Futures YM

Image Eurex Index Derivatives (futures) DAX and DJ Euro Stoxx50

Image Eurex Fixed Income Derivatives (futures) BUND, BOBL and Schatz

Image Euronext Futures FTSE-100 and CAC-40

Image CME Futures EuroFX 6E and EC

Image Treasury Futures T-Notes ZT, ZN, ZF and T-Bonds ZB

Image Forex Currencies GBPUSD, EurUsd, EurYen and UsdCdn

Image Exchange Traded Funds VXX, DIA, IWM, QQQQ, SPY, BGU, FAS, FAZ, TNA, OIH, XLE and GLD

Image NYMEX Energy Futures Light Crude Oil CL, e-miNY QM and Natural Gas NG

Image COMEX Metal Futures Gold GC, mini-Gold YG, Copper HG and Silver SI

Image Hang Seng Index Futures HSI and mini-Hang Seng MHI

Also, to prevent the usual mix-up about our different chat rooms, most of our fee-base clients do not use chat rooms just like most retail traders do not use chat rooms. Yet, the few clients that do use chat rooms, our fee-base clients are discussing market analysis or trade signals via concepts from our strategies in the private chat rooms called #VolatilityTradingTSL or #SwingTradingTSL and they're not allowed to do such in #FuturesTrades.

Reminder, our Terms of Use (TOU) Policy is a must read to prevent any misunderstandings along with revealing that #FuturesTrades is a serious professional trading chat room and we expect members to act professional. Also, these logs may have been edited (rarely) to remove any messages that a member has complained to me via private message that they consider a particular commentary to be inappropriate, offending or too far in the off topic area that's a distraction when the commentary was posted.

Note: All logs regardless to their location at TheStrategyLab.com website are eastern standard time.

Best Regards,
M.A. Perry
Trader and Founder of WRB Analysis (wide range body analysis)
Image@ http://twitter.com/wrbtrader or http://stocktwits.com/wrbtrader

Phone: +1 708 572-4885
Business Hours: 8am - 5pm est (Mon - Fri)
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