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Posted by M.A. Perry
Trader and Founder of
WRB Analysis (wide range body analysis)
------------------------
Session Start: Wed Dec 02 09:22:36 2009
Session Ident: #futurestrades
[09:22] * Now talking in #futurestrades
[09:22] <@X> [NihabaAshi] Announcement: The new trade posting script v3.7 (replaces v3.6) is posted at your forum in the "Announcements" thread.
[09:25] <jbuch> morning everyone
[09:30] <drt>
[09:35] <Nesi> 1112 big key if taken
[09:36] <+jbuch> Long ES @ 1109.5
[09:36] <+jbuch> chased it alll the way up from 1108
[09:38] <+jbuch> Exited all ES Long @ 1109.75 --> + 0.25
[09:38] <+jbuch> totaly flubbed that up
[09:40] <+Nesi> 1112 here we come....
[09:40] <mo2t> Long YM @ 10468
[09:41] <+Nesi> 2:00 PM Fed's Beige Book
[09:41] <+Nesi> 10:30 EIA Petroleum Inventories
[09:41] <+Nesi> 1:15 PM Fed's Lacker: Economic Outlook
[09:41] <+jbuch> Long ES @ 1110.5
[09:41] <+mo2t> Exited all YM Long @ 10468 --> 0
[09:43] <+Nesi> Exited all ES Long @ 1109.00 --> + 0.5
[09:44] <+Nesi> Shorts ES @ 1109.00
[09:44] <+jbuch> Exited all ES Long @ 1109 --> - 1.5
[09:44] <@wrbtrader_awau> Shorts ES @ 1109.00 -> large size
[09:44] <@wrbtrader_awau> 6 only
[09:44] * wrbtrader_awau is now known as wrbtrader
[09:45] <@wrbtrader> Covered all ES Short @ 1108.25 --> + 0.75
[09:45] <@wrbtrader>
[09:46] <@wrbtrader> I had two trades yesterday that did the exact same thing...
[09:46] <@wrbtrader> push down hard and then quickly retrace back upwards for only a few tick profit.
[09:46] <@wrbtrader> signs of early chop showing up
[09:47] <+jbuch> Shorts ES @ 1108
[09:47] <@wrbtrader> I'm a little lazy at the moment...won't be doing any "re-entries" for awhile until later.
[09:48] <+Nesi> Covered all ES Short @ 1108.50 --> + 0.5
[09:49] <+Nesi> Long ES @ 1108.75
[09:50] <+jbuch> Covered ES Short @ 1109 --> - 1
[09:50] <+jbuch> Reverse and Enter Long ES @ 1109
[09:51] <+jbuch> having a rough start
[09:53] <+Nesi> short squeeze in the making..imho
[09:53] <+Nesi> to take big wall of 1112
[09:55] <+Nesi> Exited all ES Long @ 1109.25 --> + 0.5
[09:56] <+Nesi> Shorts ES @ 1109.00
[09:57] <+Nesi> Covered all ES Short @ 1109.00 --> 0
[09:58] <+Nesi> Long ES @ 1110.00
[09:58] <+Nesi> 2
[09:58] <+Nesi> 2 point risk..stop hard 1108
[09:58] <+Nesi> IF i am right..i may get 6 pooints..imo
[09:59] <+jbuch> come on break it
[10:01] <@wrbtrader> Long ES @ 1110.25 -> medium size
[10:01] <+Nesi> Long ES @ 1110.50 -> Add
[10:01] <@wrbtrader> 4 only
[10:01] <+jbuch> bam here we go
[10:01] <+Nesi> 1112 big wal jbb
[10:02] <+Nesi> exit stop set ES @ 1108.00
[10:02] <@wrbtrader> Tough resistance area up here for Emini ES
[10:02] <+Nesi> very
[10:02] <@wrbtrader> It could just chop for awhile
[10:03] <+Nesi> gonna be fast and furios IF taken
[10:03] <@wrbtrader> The closer I look at this price action...the more I want to go back to bed
[10:03] <+Nesi> hrre we goooo
[10:04] <+jbuch> Exited 1/3 ES Long @ 110.75 --> - 998.25
[10:04] <@wrbtrader> Exited all ES Long @ 1100.25 --> - 10
[10:04] <@wrbtrader> ooops
[10:04] <+Nesi> chickens
[10:04] <+Nesi> lol
[10:04] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> You must read #FuturesTrades purpose and benefits @
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36 and TOU policy @
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55 to prevent any misunderstandings.
[10:04] <@wrbtrader> Exited all ES Long @ 1110.25 --> 0
[10:04] <+Nesi> patience
[10:04] <+jbuch> yup
[10:04] <@wrbtrader> sidelined...will watch for awhile to see if it can clear 1112.00
[10:06] <+jbuch> Exited 1/3 ES Long @ 1111.5 --> + 2.5
[10:10] <+jbuch> here we go
[10:10] <@wrbtrader> Long ES @ 1112.25 -> large size
[10:10] <@wrbtrader> 9 only
[10:10] <@wrbtrader> we're over that magic marke of 1112
[10:10] <+Nesi> now lets juice it
[10:11] <+Nesi> big short squeeze
[10:11] <@wrbtrader> lets see if it can hit 1115 for an exit signal
[10:11] <+jbuch> Exited 1/4 ES Long @ 1114 --> + 5
[10:11] <+jbuch> 1 remainder
[10:11] <mo2t> vn
[10:13] <@wrbtrader> Exited 2/3 ES Long @ 1115.00 --> + 2.75
[10:13] <@wrbtrader> Holding 2 contract remainders
[10:14] <@wrbtrader> tighten trail for remainders
[10:14] <@wrbtrader> exit stop raised ES @ 1114.00
[10:16] <+jbuch> Exited Remainder ES Long @ 1115 --> + 6
[10:17] <+Nesi> Exited all ES Long @ 1114.50 --> + 8.5
[10:17] <@wrbtrader> nice
[10:17] <+Nesi> done for day
[10:18] <+Nesi> i had nice 4 c
[10:18] <@wrbtrader> Can't think of a better reason to call it quits early.
[10:18] <+jbuch> nice nesi
[10:18] <+Nesi> thanks
[10:19] <+jbuch> makes it easy to enjoy a day day off
[10:19] <@wrbtrader>
[10:19] <@wrbtrader> Trailing Stop Hit ES @ 1114.00 --> + 1.75
[10:20] <+jbuch> what a move this is what I was looking for all afternoon yesterday.
[10:23] <+jbuch> Long ES @ 1113.75
[10:25] <+Nesi> 12/02/2009 10:24 *DJ ComScore:Cyber Monday Online Sales Up 5 % Vs. Yr Ago To $887 M To Match Heaviest Online Spending Day In History
[10:30] <+Nesi> oil
[10:31] <+Nesi> 10:30 *DJ DOE: US Crude Oil Stocks +2.091 Mln Bbl At 339.899 Mln Bbl
[10:31] <+jbuch> Exited all ES Long @ 1112.75 --> - 1
[10:31] <@wrbtrader> I always love the 1030am est EIA Petroleum Status report because it brings in needed volatility.
[10:32] <+Nesi> Long ES @ 1112.50
[10:32] <+Nesi> quote ES
[10:32] <+Nesi> plsae
[10:32] <jigglyhippo> 111
[10:33] <+jigglyhippo> 1113
[10:34] * codehead_afk is now known as codehead
[10:37] <+Nesi> Exited all ES Long @ 1112.75 --> + 0.25
[10:44] <+codehead> i had 10502-06 Ym major res
[10:48] <+Nesi> now 1112 big resistance so far
[10:52] <+Nesi> Long ES @ 1113.00
[10:52] <+Nesi> 1
[10:52] <+Nesi> exit stop set ES @ 1111.75
[10:52] <@wrbtrader> nasty price action contraction...becareful
[10:56] <+codehead> short 10487 <paper> 10 pt stop
[10:57] <+Nesi> Exited all ES Long @ 1112.50 --> - 0.5
[10:58] <+Nesi> did not like how oil and dollar behaving
[10:58] <+codehead> lower stop to 10495 <paper>
[10:58] <+codehead> oil drop
[10:58] <+Nesi>
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/12/ ... y.html?dbk[11:00] <+codehead> exit half Ym +10 <paper>
[11:01] <+codehead> lower stop on remainder to 10493 <paper>
[11:02] <+codehead> lower stop on remainder to 10491 <paper>
[11:04] <+codehead> exit YM +22 <paper>
[11:04] <+codehead> remainder
[11:04] <+jigglyhippo> nice
[11:06] <+codehead> well, i had 10488 short before that real, let it stop out for a few tick profit, didn't grab it back
[11:07] <+codehead> my intent, from charting last night, was to short just above 10500
[11:07] <+codehead> major cluster there--actually saw it weeks ago
[11:07] <+jigglyhippo> and it broke down from that level
[11:07] <+jigglyhippo>
[11:07] <+codehead> but didn't get up in time, was kinda of hoping for a retest like yesterday
[11:08] <+codehead> YM hod was 10505
[11:08] <+jigglyhippo> ahh
[11:08] <+codehead> the immediate pb was to 10478, so first touch would have been a nice trade
[11:32] <+codehead> i think i wrote here about leveraged ETFs a while back, and the reason you should never hold them long overnight
[11:32] <+codehead> i was in two pairs of them, short, to exploit that inherent flaw
[11:33] <+codehead> had to close them out right now--ameritrade basically made them unmarginable
[11:33] <+codehead> so i had a margin call, decided to just cash in
[11:33] <+codehead> FAS and Faz are mirror images--if one goes up 4% in the day, the other will go down 4%
[11:35] <+codehead> over the time i had them, FAS had dropped about 2.3%, FAZ dropped 34%
[11:36] <+codehead> so i had nice profit, fully hedge--didn't matter which way the market moved
[11:48] <TraderG> that is not exactly so
[11:49] <+TraderG> if the market would have moved in the opposite direction you would have lost
[11:49] <+TraderG> you did a Pair Trading which sounds good and looks good on paper but from experience it is not all it is cracked up 2b
[11:50] <+TraderG>
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=FAZ& ... &q=l&c=fas[11:50] <+TraderG> look at the above
[11:51] <+TraderG> if you did a pair trade in the wrong time you would be killed (financially)
[11:51] <+TraderG>
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=FAZ& ... &q=l&c=fas[11:51] <+TraderG> another view of the same in a different time frame
[11:52] <+TraderG> you need a directional bias when doing Pair Trades
[11:53] <+TraderG> and if you have a directional bias, why not just trade one of the instruments in the direction of the bias?
[11:54] <+TraderG> anyways, since no-one seems interested ;-), I'll go and blow some leaves.
[11:55] <+jigglyhippo> Shorts ES @ 1108
[11:55] <+jigglyhippo> sorry
[11:55] <+jigglyhippo> Shorts ES @ 1108.50
[11:56] <+codehead> TradeG: sorry, maybe you dont' understand
[11:56] <+codehead> I was short the long fund and short the short fund
[11:56] <+codehead> by equal $ amount
[11:58] <+codehead> TraderG: and if you have a directional bias, why not just trade one of the instruments in the direction of the bias?
[11:58] <+codehead> because i didn't want ot have to choose one
[11:58] <+codehead> there is an inherent flaw in leveraged funds
[11:58] <+codehead> that give them a downward bias
[11:58] <+jigglyhippo> my stop is 1110
[11:58] <+jigglyhippo> might move it to 1110.25
[11:58] <+codehead> look at FAS lifetime, look at FAZ lifetime--both are down huge
[12:00] <+codehead> i dont' understand--both of his charts show a profit for short the pair
[12:00] <+codehead> maybe he's thinking i was long
[12:03] <+jigglyhippo> stop at 1110.25
[12:03] <+jigglyhippo> not looking too good
[12:03] <+jigglyhippo> overnight profile looks like theres tons of support at 11\08.50
[12:03] <+jigglyhippo> =/
[12:07] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> You must read #FuturesTrades purpose and benefits @
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36 and TOU policy @
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55 to prevent any misunderstandings.
[12:09] <+jigglyhippo> break itttt
[12:10] <+jigglyhippo> chop city
[12:21] <+jigglyhippo> thing is dropping
[12:21] <+jigglyhippo> Covered 1/2 ES Short @ 1105 --> + 3.5
[12:22] <+Nesi> good one
[12:23] <+jigglyhippo> thanks
[12:25] <+jigglyhippo> Covered 1/2 ES Short @ 1104.50 --> + 4
[12:25] <+jigglyhippo> sorry should say Covered all
[12:25] <+jigglyhippo> im flat
[12:25] <+Nesi>
[13:03] <+TraderG> I'm back
[13:03] <+TraderG> no, i did not think you were long
[13:04] <+TraderG> you were short and long
[13:04] <+TraderG> but the long part reduced your profit from the short part
[13:04] <+TraderG> so why not just be short
[13:04] <+TraderG> the short bias in both is something else
[13:05] <+TraderG> but it should renforce the idea of going short with only 1 instrument
[13:05] <+TraderG> if you look at the charts that I referenced, you will see that had you done this trade at the wrong time you would have lost.
[13:06] <+TraderG> anyway. u made $$$ and good 4 u
[13:06] <+TraderG> send me some
))
[13:11] <+jbuch>
)))))
[13:11] <+codehead> 10:04 TraderG: but the long part reduced your profit from the short part
[13:11] <+codehead> in the case of FAS/FAZ, i profitted on both--where did I lose?
[13:12] <+codehead> and... the idea was so that i didn't have to watch them--that's hedging
[13:12] <+codehead> i profited from the decay
[13:12] <+codehead> which is inherent to leverage funds
[13:12] <+codehead> again, FAS i made a couple percent, FAZ i made 34%
[13:13] <+codehead> but the point was i never had to worry about what news was going to come out the next morning on these volatile instruments
[13:15] <+codehead> the difference was i never had to worry about any significant loss, it was all gain--wish all my trades had that characteristic
[13:18] <+codehead> i think you're missing that i was not trading the underlying at all--i was just investing (short) in the inherent bleed
[13:21] <+codehead> what makes me think you do not understand is that you said, "if you did a pair trade in the wrong time you would be killed (financially)"
[13:21] <+codehead> which is not possible
[13:21] <+TraderG> how long were u in the trade?
[13:22] <+codehead> since september
[13:22] <+codehead> i'd have to check exactly
[13:22] <+TraderG> and u were short both?
[13:22] <+codehead> yes
[13:23] <+TraderG> so if they would have gone up you would have lost.....
[13:23] <+codehead> shorted FAS at 77 something, FAZ at 23.85
[13:23] <+codehead> equal $ amount
[13:24] <+TraderG> me under-stand (foreign accent)
[13:24] <+jbuch> sounds awesome code I assume that u would have done even better if the market had gone down
[13:24] <+codehead> yeah, i did the same in BGU/BGZ, made only a little, because it was basically all one-way
[13:25] <+codehead> it's the up-down chop that exaggerates the flaw in leveraged ETFs
[13:25] <+jbuch> awesome good research thanks for sharing.
[13:25] <+TraderG> so do you disagree that had the market gone up you would have lost?
[13:25] <+codehead> the key is that they are "constant leverage"
[13:25] <+jbuch> gotta take off have a good day everyone.
[13:25] <+codehead> so when they move, they have to be adjusted daily
[13:25] <+TraderG> babaye jb
[13:26] <+codehead> by far the best is when they chop--not intraday but interday
[13:27] <+codehead> and FAS/FAZ is the best one for that
[13:27] <+TraderG> [13:25:34] <TraderG> so do you disagree that had the market gone up you would have lost?
[13:27] <+codehead> yes
[13:27] <+codehead> because one side would have gone the other direction
[13:28] <+codehead> i lost money in BGU for instance, but made more than that in BGZ
[13:28] <+codehead> if market where to go on a healthy retrace, my profit would ahve increased quickly tho
[13:32] <+TraderG> FAS moved at one point in Sept from 70 to 95. at the same period FAZ moved from 25 to 17 so if you bought equal $ shorted equal $ amonunt you would have lost 50% on FAS and gained 33% on FAZ for a net loss
[13:38] <@wrbtrader> I see I missed a nice big price drop just to return in time for the chop or contraction
[13:39] <@wrbtrader> Nice trading jigglyhippo
[13:41] <+codehead> TraderG: I never said it was not possible to lose money if you picked the worst possible time, then accepted that loss
[13:41] <+codehead> but long term it can't lose
[13:42] <+codehead> look at FAS and FAZ over their lifetime!
[13:42] <+codehead> holy smoke, both at down HUGE
[13:42] <+codehead> and direction is unimportant--if FAS was up instead of down over lifetime, FAZ would be down by a MUCH larger amount
[13:42] <+codehead> it's inherent in the design of the instruments
[13:43] <+codehead> i could explain the math of why this is necessarily true if you'd like
[13:48] <+codehead> 10:32 TraderG: FAS moved at one point in Sept from 70 to 95. at the same period FAZ moved from 25 to 17 so if you bought equal $ shorted equal $ amonunt you would have lost 50% on FAS and gained 33% on FAZ for a net loss
[13:48] <+codehead> wait, you have that backwards--that trade would have been a net gain, not loss
[13:48] <+TraderG> if you could do that in a pm (not to hog this room) that would be nice.
[13:48] <+codehead> remember you are *short* both funds
[13:49] <+TraderG> yes
[13:49] <+TraderG> i remember
[13:49] <tomosyn57> i would like to hear more
[13:50] <+codehead> 70->95 short would be a 35% loss, FAZ 25-17 short would be a 47% gain, net gain overall
[13:51] <+TraderG> 32% gain not 47%. you are starting at 25 going DOWN to 17. 8$/25 = 32%
[13:52] <+TraderG> 25/70 = 36% loss correct about this
[13:52] <+codehead> k, what about the 50% loss on FAS? how is 70->95 50%?
[13:52] <+TraderG> my mistake
[13:52] <+codehead> k, ic
[13:52] <+TraderG> and what about the 47%??? ;-)
[13:53] <+codehead> sorry, made mistake
[13:53] <+TraderG>
[13:53] <+TraderG> so the net result would be 32-36= -4
[13:54] <+codehead> anyway, FAS/FAZ very volatile, and it is possible to pick exactly the worst 4-day (or whatever) span and lose money, but it doesn't matter int he long run
[13:54] <+codehead> i plotted all this out first, and yes, you can pick a really unlucky stretch and temporarily lose
[13:55] <+codehead> ok, i don't want to take up all this space, sorry for that--i'll answer your request briefly, tomo:
[13:55] <+TraderG> well, in my case of pair trading (which is similar) I DID
[13:55] <+codehead> oic
[13:56] <+codehead> ok, explanation of why leveraged funds are inherently biased downwards:
[13:57] <+codehead> first, that doesn't mean they won't do up--it just means that there is a bias constantly tugging downward--a bleed--so the ones that go up don't go up as fast as they should, and the ones that go down drop faster than they should
[13:57] <+TraderG> leverged only?
[13:58] <+codehead> yes
[13:58] <+codehead> and i'll explain how
[13:58] <+TraderG> x2 and x3?
[13:58] <+codehead> 3x worse than 2x
[13:58] <+TraderG> thnks
[13:58] <+codehead> more leverge, more bleed
[13:58] <+TraderG> so x3 is better 4 your strategy
[13:58] <+codehead> k, the implication is, either dont' hold them overnight--they are fine intraday...
[13:59] <+codehead> or, if you want to hold long term, short the oppositie
[13:59] <+codehead> that is, if you are bullish on FAS, short FAZ
[13:59] <+codehead> OR, short equal dollar amount of both if you dont' want to pick bullish/bearish, and just profit on the bleed
[13:59] <+codehead> ok, here's how it works:
[14:00] <+codehead> the funds are contant leveraged--it's a feature of the funds
[14:00] <+codehead> fund starts out at $100, you're leveraging $300... when it's at $200, you
[14:00] <+codehead> 're leveraging $600
[14:01] <+codehead> of course, it can't be truly constant leverage--it's realigned daily
[14:01] <+codehead> example:
[14:01] <+codehead> let's say you have a 3x fund for which the underlying is $100
[14:02] <@wrbtrader> Shorts ES @ 1107.50 -> small size
[14:02] <@wrbtrader> 3 only
[14:02] <+codehead> by coincidence (for convenience), let's say this EFT is at $100
[14:02] <+codehead> you bought Monday at $100
[14:03] <+codehead> the underlying was $100 (again, arbitrary, for convenience)
[14:04] <+codehead> that means the fund loaned (margined) you $200 worth of the underlying in addition to the $100 you had the cash for
[14:04] <+TraderG> Beige book now
[14:04] <+codehead> ah
[14:04] <@wrbtrader> Covered all ES Short @ 1106.75 --> + 0.75
[14:04] <+codehead> so, the underlying goes up during the day, Monday, 10% to $110
[14:05] <+codehead> $10 profit
[14:05] <+codehead> your ETF went to $130
[14:05] <+codehead> 3x the $10 underlying
[14:06] <+codehead> 30% gain versus the 10% underlying, right?
[14:06] <+codehead> yay
[14:06] <+TraderG> y
[14:06] <+codehead> so, end of day, they need to rebalance
[14:06] <+codehead> because you're no longer 3x leveraged
[14:06] <+codehead> they lent you $200, remember? plus your $130 (now), that's $330
[14:07] <+codehead> but 3x $130 is $390
[14:07] <+codehead> so they have to buy some more for you, lend you another $60
[14:07] <+codehead> your $130 is now leveraging $390--you are back to 3x
[14:07] <+codehead> with me?
[14:07] <+codehead> next day, the underlying coughs up its gain, back to $100
[14:08] <+codehead> but you "averaged up"
[14:08] <+codehead> the underlying hasn't moved, over the 2 day period
[14:08] <+codehead> but
[14:08] <+codehead> your share is now worth $94.55
[14:08] <+TraderG> why?
[14:09] <+codehead> ok, underlying when up 10%, then lost that:
[14:09] <+TraderG> ok
[14:09] <+codehead> $100 x 1.10 = $110
[14:09] <+TraderG> y
[14:09] <+codehead> then next day, it gave it up, $110 / 1.10 = $100
[14:09] <@wrbtrader> Shorts ES @ 1106.50 -> small size
[14:09] <+codehead> but you had $390 worth:
[14:09] <@wrbtrader> 1 only
[14:09] <@wrbtrader> intuition
[14:10] <+codehead> $390 / 1.10 = $354.55
[14:10] <+TraderG> ok
[14:10] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> You must read #FuturesTrades purpose and benefits @
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36 and TOU policy @
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55 to prevent any misunderstandings.
[14:10] <+codehead> minus the $260 they lent you: $94.55
[14:10] <+TraderG> ok i c
[14:10] <+codehead> worse, that day they have to lighten you share in the rebalance
[14:10] <@wrbtrader> Covered ES Short @ 1107.00 --> - 0.5
[14:11] <+codehead> so if the next day the underlying goes back to $110, you wont' bounce as high
[14:11] <@wrbtrader> punks chopped me out
[14:11] <+codehead> if the underlying simply alternated from $100 to $110 and back every other day...
[14:11] <+codehead> you're ETF value would head towards zero
[14:11] <+TraderG> Mark maybe you shoulf put some of your $ in 3x ETFs
[14:12] <+TraderG> nice explanation CH
[14:12] <+codehead> anyway, i mainly want people to realize don't hold long the leveraged ETFs
[14:12] <+codehead> like, if you think market is topped and want to short an s&p leveraged (UPRO i think?)
[14:13] <+codehead> instead of going long the short fund, short the long fund
[14:13] <+TraderG> neat
[14:14] <+TraderG> how liquid r these funds?
[14:14] <+codehead> the bottom line is that these are going day trading vehicle, but not meant for holding long
[14:14] <+codehead> "are good" not going
[14:14] <+codehead> very
[14:14] <+TraderG> you had a margin call no?
[14:14] <+codehead> in fact, i think they are to the point of the tail wagging the dog a bit
[14:15] <+codehead> yes, only because i had enough of these that it was using some margin
[14:15] <+TraderG> that's why you had to close the trade. right?
[14:15] <+codehead> and ameritrade decided to pull margin on them
[14:15] <+TraderG> i c
[14:15] <+codehead> i think people have been losing their butts on them
[14:15] <+codehead> for me, it's silly, because i was completely hedged
[14:15] <+TraderG> do u look at the historic spread between them to initiate a trade?
[14:15] <+codehead> but whatever, i took profit
[14:16] <+codehead> i studied on spreadsheet for while--seemed too good to be true
[14:16] <+TraderG> what % profit per year does it show you/
[14:16] <+codehead> i started thinking about them last spring after noticing that for some, both side where down, didn't make sense at first blush
[14:17] <+codehead> hm...
[14:17] <+codehead> well, i made what 34% on one side, like 2.3% on the other...
[14:17] <+codehead> starting equal $ amount...
[14:17] <+TraderG> in 3 months...... nice
[14:17] <+codehead> that was over about 3 months
[14:18] <+TraderG> like I said b4 - send me some $$$
))
[14:18] <@wrbtrader> They ensured we couldn't ride that short via the chop
[14:18] <+codehead> considering i never had to fret about which direction, that was pretty good
[14:18] <@wrbtrader> Oh well...I had 2 good tries at it.
[14:20] <+codehead> i've had 4 straight day, not counting friday with no trading, that i've shorted YM very close to top and not stuck with it
[14:20] <+codehead> i was a bit distracted this morning tho when i looked at stock account and it had a margin call
[14:20] <+codehead> had to call them and see why
[14:21] <+codehead> was due to the huge change in 3x ETF margin
[14:21] <+codehead> so was exiting those and not managing trade
[14:22] <+codehead> YM hit my cluster, ES did get in a resistance range, but i have bigger #'s for it a bit higher
[14:22] <+codehead> so not sure if top is in
[14:22] <+TraderG> this must have been the most interesting thing that happened 2day. Thanks CH
[14:58] <@wrbtrader> If this moves back up a point or so and then attempts to retrace back down...I'm short large
[14:58] <+jigglyhippo> lol same thoughts
[15:01] <+jigglyhippo> if it tests 1108
[15:01] <+jigglyhippo> then back down
[15:01] <+jigglyhippo> time to shorttt
[15:14] <+jigglyhippo> deadd
[15:15] <@wrbtrader> It's trying to retest that support area
[15:16] <@wrbtrader> Shorts ES @ 1106.00 -> large size
[15:16] <@wrbtrader> 6 only
[15:17] <+jigglyhippo> got in at 1106.75
[15:17] <+jigglyhippo> my stop is 1108
[15:17] <+jigglyhippo> may move it to 1108.25
[15:17] <@wrbtrader> Covered all ES Short @ 1107.00 --> - 1
[15:18] <@wrbtrader> punks grab the order on the tick and took it right back up.
[15:18] <+jigglyhippo> yeah that was not cool
[15:18] <@wrbtrader> Shorts ES @ 1106.50 -> large size
[15:18] <@wrbtrader> 6 only
[15:19] <@wrbtrader> oh oh
[15:19] <+jigglyhippo> its a fight
[15:19] <+jigglyhippo> and we may lost
[15:19] <+jigglyhippo> lose
[15:21] <@wrbtrader> Covered all ES Short @ 1106.75 --> - 0.25
[15:21] <+jigglyhippo> im out
[15:21] <+jigglyhippo> 1107.50
[15:22] <+jigglyhippo>
(
[15:25] <@wrbtrader> Long ES @ 1107.00 -> large size
[15:25] <@wrbtrader> 6 only
[15:30] <@wrbtrader> Exited all ES Long @ 1107.25 --> + 0.25
[15:31] <@wrbtrader> that could be as good as it gets for the remainder of the afternoon trading session
[15:34] <@wrbtrader> Shorts ES @ 1106.75 -> large size
[15:34] <@wrbtrader> 6 only
[15:35] <@wrbtrader> Covered all ES Short @ 1106.75 --> 0
[15:35] <@wrbtrader> tough
[15:40] <@wrbtrader> Long ES @ 1107.75 -> large size
[15:40] <@wrbtrader> puuushshshhs
[15:40] <@wrbtrader>
[15:42] <@wrbtrader> Exited all ES Long @ 1108.25 --> + 0.5
[15:42] <@wrbtrader> geeesh
[15:44] <@wrbtrader> Long ES @ 1108.50 -> large size
[15:44] <@wrbtrader> 6 only
[15:44] <@wrbtrader> intuition
[15:49] <@wrbtrader> Exited all ES Long @ 1109.25 --> + 0.75
[15:59] <+jigglyhippo> gn all
[16:07] <@wrbtrader> Take care all and see all tomorrow
[16:07] * wrbtrader is now known as wrbtrader_away
[16:16] <@X> #FuturesTrades Info -> You must read #FuturesTrades purpose and benefits @
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36 and TOU policy @
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55 to prevent any misunderstandings.
Session Close: Wed Dec 02 16:51:36 2009
-------------------------
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