#FuturesTrades November 15th Thursday 2007 Trade Log

General Strategy Info: The above profit/loss info represents trades by M.A. Perry (a.k.a. NihabaAshi) only and all trades were posted in realtime as shown in the below chat log. 

Although I'm not familiar with the trade methods used by most members of #FuturesTrades, I use a rule based (no subjectivity) methodology that involves WRB Analysis.

  There is some subjectivity involved with some of my trades when I'm developing a new strategy (hence the name TheStrategyLab.com) that uses WRB Analysis.

In fact, many of my trades or profit targets will occur within key WRB support/resistance zones because these price areas gives me a better understanding of key changes in supply demand.

  Traditional pivot point analysis or traditional s/r levels are inadequate in understanding changes in supply/demand of the Russell 2000 Emini ER2 or any other trading instrument of today's markets in comparison to WRB Analysis.

WRB Analysis is also a key aspect in my use of intermarket analysis (ex. Oil and Gold), market seasonal tendencies, volatility analysis and custom Japanese Candlestick patterns to complete my trading plan that results in consistent profits.

Further, position size management is a key aspect of my trading and I trade any where between 1 to 9 contracts per trade depending upon the volatility, pattern signal, seasonal tendencies or intuition.

All of my trades and commentary for today's market action (posted below) are via the user name NihabaAshi (Japanese Candlestick term) and I exclusively trade the Russell 2000 Emini ER2 futures even though I closely monitor other key markets so that I'll have a better understanding of ER2 price action. 

With that said, today's trade posting chat log is below and it contains all my trades that were posted in realtime along with the trades of other members of #FuturesTrades.

Further, if you want the instructions for gaining access to our free #FuturesTrades chat room...click here.

	#FuturesTrades purpose, benefits and access info for day traders, swing traders and position traders...click here.
	Session Start: Thu Nov 15 05:46:20 2007Session Ident: #futurestrades
* Now	talking in #futurestrades	05:46
<X>	[NihabaAshi] #FuturesTrades info @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/FuturesTradesChatRoom.htm and trade log archives @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/RecentTrades.htm
<NihabaAshi>	Anybody in here trading the Eurex DAX ???	05:47
* NihabaAshi	is now known as NihabaAshi_away	06:16
<X>	#FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders and intermarket analysis of Emini Futures (EMD, ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY)	06:56
<Nesi>	good morning	08:58
* subq	market profile charts for today	09:11
	http://www.charthub.com/chart/author/DA0 D7987572D7FBE3C7226C93DD52A
<werner>	gm all	09:24
<pat255>	oil losing since 7am..
<NihabaAshi_away>	be back in a few minutes	09:25
<NihabaAshi>	Shorts ER2 @ 781.20 -> large size	09:35
	Covered 2/3 ER2 Short @ 779.30 --> + 1.9	09:38
<pat255>	vn N..	09:39
<ItalianSharp>	we have FED member Evans due up in 5mins	09:40
<NihabaAshi>	Covered Remainder ER2 Short @ 781.00 --> + 0.2	09:41
	Had some problems managing those remainders...got a little lost with the volatility ER2 was showing :(	09:42
Trading Edge:  Strategies	If your an independent trader looking for an edge to help you traverse around obstacles to profitable trading...a method that's well defined, gives you a better understanding of the markets, applicable for day trading, position trading, swing trading, market seasonal tendencies, position size management, intermarket analysis with a money back guaranteed policy...click here.
	Trading Strategies ->   Strategies used by NihabaAshi, from entry to exit, exploit inefficiencies in the price action for profits of the following trading instruments via WRB Analysis and Intermarket Analysis: Emini Index Futures (EMD, ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Index Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Index Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Energy Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), COMEX Metals Futures (GC), Forex Currencies (EurUsd, EurYen, UsdCdn), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, OIH, IWM, QQQQ, SPY, XLE) and Hang Seng Index Futures (HSI)
* bern_away	is now known as Bern	09:45
<Bern>	Chicago Fed President Evans Speaks	09:46
<NihabaAshi>	Shorts ER2 @ 781.20 -> medium size	09:47
	I'm not happen with that entry.	09:48
	Got short too late into the pullback	09:49
	Lost me wiggle room to be able to properly manage the trade
	Covered 3/4 ER2 Short @ 780.00 --> + 1.2	09:50
<Bern>	this looks chop chop	09:52
<szubaark>	yeah, whats new
<NihabaAshi>	Covered Remainder ER2 Short @ 781.00 --> + 0.2	09:53
<szubaark>	trick is to know when to stay away
<NihabaAshi>	same trade management problem on the remainders as the first trade :(
<Bern>	do you think this price action has to do with Chicago Fed President speech now?	09:54
<Tim_a1>	dow bottomed today at 5 day ma - yesterday's high was 10 day ma	09:55
	almost exactly
<NihabaAshi>	Bern...that's a big YES :)
	It's one of the reasons for my aggressiveness	09:56
<Bern>	thanks Niha
<Tim_a1>	dow has to do it's little dance around the 200 ma	09:58
<jperl>	ER2 ASK-BID trades a negative 2700 contracts	10:01
<pat255>	ty jper	10:03
<jperl>	yw	10:04
	Pat, I thought you had that info from Market Delta	10:05
<pat255>	no jper i dont follow that at all..
	:(
<jperl>	k
<NihabaAshi>	Still dropping and I'm not on board...will need to review my live-recordings later this evening concerning those two trades :(	10:06
<szubaark>	Buys ES @ 1469.75 «« paper »»	10:09
	Exited 1/2 Long ES at 1471.75 --> + 2 «« paper »»	10:10
	got heads up from NQ
	exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1469.75 «« paper »»
	expecting another volatility spike, hopefully to upside, Im Long	10:17
<Bern>	Crude Oil Inventories in 6 min	10:24
<szubaark>	lets see if Oil report gives us Volatility, hopefully to upside,Im Long	10:29
<Brutus>	1030/1530 Nov 9 US Energy Dept Oil Inventories
	Crude Oil Stocks (in barrels) -800K
	Gasoline Stocks (in barrels) -800K
	Distillate Stocks (in barrels) +100K
	1030/1530 Nov 9 US Energy Dept Natural Gas Inventory
	Natural Gas Stocks (in billion +36
	cubic feet)
<szubaark>	Exited all Long ES at 1469.75 --> 0 «« paper »»	10:33
	:((
<Trader222>	where is this pop coming from?	10:37
<ItalianSharp>	might come from oil inventories and ES willing to close its gap	10:38
<szubaark>	that was nasty spike to the downside to get Stops before the Pop
<NihabaAshi>	Shorts ER2 @ 781.20 -> small size	10:42
	2 only
	Missed the ramp up after 1033am est due to some personal stuff here at home
	Would like to catch at least a point downwards on a pullback to feel like I got something in reaction to the 1030am est EIA Petroleum Status Report	10:43
<szubaark>	Buys ES @ 1474 «« paper »»	10:47
<NihabaAshi>	volatility declining	10:50
<szubaark>	yes
<NihabaAshi>	preparing to reverse my position if necessary because there WILL BE a volatility spike here soon.
* Bern	is now known as Bern_away
<NihabaAshi>	Hopefully it sends price down and not up.
<szubaark>	exit stop set ES @ 1473 «« paper »»	10:51
	Exited all Long ES at 1474 --> 0 «« paper »»	10:53
	lost my patience	10:54
<NihabaAshi>	volatility spike	10:55
	Covered 1/2 ER2 Short @ 780.00 --> + 1.2	10:56
<szubaark>	nice Niha, i bailed in time, you got the right direction
<NihabaAshi>	szu...I too almost lost my patience...a few more seconds there and I would have tighten up my stop to a +2 tick trailing stop.	10:57
	Now I can manage my remainder properly and let the stop do its job instead of me getting involved.	10:58
	exit stop lowered ER2 @ 781.00
	Will dump my remainder in either direction via the next volatility spike.	10:59
<jperl>	tough morning....trades here....
	http://charts.dacharts.com/2007-11-15/JP ERL_013.jpg
<szubaark>	Buys ES @ 1473 «« paper »»	11:00
<NihabaAshi>	range too tight for me to be thinking about any position ADDS.
<Nesi>	nice comeback.. jperl
<jperl>	well, not one my better days	11:01
	net contracts changing hands for ER2 now only a negative 445
	That's on 96 thousand contracts traded	11:02
<X>	#FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders and intermarket analysis of Emini Futures (EMD, ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY)
<NihabaAshi>	Covered Remainder ER2 Short @ 779.70 --> + 1.5	11:03
<szubaark>	Exited 1/2 Long ES at 1474.50 --> + 1.5 «« paper »»
	exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1473 «« paper »»	11:04
<sav>	long 779.90 er2
<NihabaAshi>	got more than I expected out of those 2 contracts...
	Keeps me from getting to frustrated about missing the 1030am est price action to the EIA Petroleum Status Report	11:05
	I've exceeded my profit goal for the day by 80%	11:06
	Thus, I'm officially now in "profit protection mode".
<sav>	exit stop @ 779.90 er2
<NihabaAshi>	Thus, one contract only for me for the remainder of the trading day.
<jperl>	So now you have the situation with 100 thousand ER2 contracts trades and no net contracts changing hands	11:09
	amazing
<Nesi>	Long ER2 @ 780.90 «« paper »»	11:10
<sav>	out @780.60 er2	11:12
<NihabaAshi>	jperl...how often do you see something like that ???	11:13
<jperl>	not too often
<NihabaAshi>	ER2 average trade size is up today from 5 yesterday to 9 today.	11:14
<jperl>	Usually the ASK-BID value stays either positive or negative
<NihabaAshi>	Could be a data problem with that 9 because that seems a little odd	11:15
	I don't see it jump like that too often from one trading day to the next.
<szubaark>	Exited all Long ES at 1473 --> 0 «« paper »»	11:19
	:(
<NihabaAshi>	volatility declining...	11:20
	hopefully it sets up something that's tradeable	11:21
<Nesi>	there are numbers in 40 minutes
	phily fed numbers
<sav>	this is like watching paint dry boring	11:26
<szubaark>	Buys ES @ 1472 «« paper »»	11:27
	exit stop set ES @ 1471 «« paper »»	11:28
<nikopa>	think we are sliding again
<szubaark>	Exited all Long ES at 1471 --> - 1 «« paper »»	11:31
* codehead_afk	is now known as codehead
<Nesi>	Long ER2 @ 777.5 -> Add «« paper »»	11:32
<szubaark>	Shorts ES @ 1469.25 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	#FuturesTrades Purpose -> No gurus, no head traders...you're here to document your own trades and thoughts as you traverse from one trade to the next trade because it provides critical information you cannot get from your broker statements (real money or simulator)...use this room as your trade journal.	11:33
	Long ER2 @ 777.70 -> small size	11:37
	1 contract only
	I got Gold support but Oil not helping at all :(	11:39
<pat255>	y...
<NihabaAshi>	I need both to get to a WRB pt1
	Trade Posting Script -> The color posted trades you see in here is available for free to any registered member of #FuturesTrades. To become a member of #FuturesTrades...follow the instructions at http://www.thestrategylab.com/FuturesTra desChatRoom and registration is free. Also, as a member you will be able to post messages, upload charts at our discussion forum @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/forum/inde x.php	11:40
<szubaark>	expecting another volatility spike soon	11:42
<NihabaAshi>	Exited ER2 Long @ 770.00 --> - 7.7	11:43
	Reverse and Enter Short ER2 @ 770.00
	Lost Gold support on the trade and a tough position reversal...may bail on it.	11:44
<Pepe>	770.00 ??
<NihabaAshi>	Yeah...will post a correction :)
<Pepe>	:)	11:45
<NihabaAshi>	corrections to keep my script from going crazy...	11:46
	Covered ER2 Short @ 770.00 --> 0	11:47
	Shorts ER2 @ 777.70 -> small size
	???
	Long ER2 @ 777.70 -> small size
<pat255>	k....	11:48
<NihabaAshi>	Exited ER2 Long @ 777.00 --> - 0.7
	Reverse and Enter Short ER2 @ 777.00
	ok...got it right now
<pat255>	:)	11:49
<NihabaAshi>	Getting too close to the 12noon key market event to be sitting in a losing trade.	11:50
	Covered ER2 Short @ 778.30 --> - 1.3	11:51
	7 ticks below my stop but I don't want to miss a trade opportunity here soon while trying to nurse a losing trade.
	Shorts ER2 @ 770.10 -> small size	11:53
<Tim_a1>	event?
<szubaark>	Volatility picking up, lets see if we get followthru
<NihabaAshi>	I got Oil and Gold support...	11:54
<szubaark>	Covered 1/2 Short ES at 1467.25 --> + 2 «« paper »»
	exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1469.25 «« paper »»
* Fleneer2	is now known as Fleneer	11:55
<NihabaAshi>	Will hold beyond my profit target because of the support I have in other key markets
<szubaark>	Covered all Short ES at 1469.25 --> 0 «« paper »»	11:56
<NihabaAshi>	correction again...having problems with the infamous 777 number	11:57
<szubaark>	Buys ES @ 1468.50 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	Shorts ER2 @ 777.10 -> small size
<Nesi>	2 minutes for numbers	11:58
<Tim_a1>	event being oil inventory?
<szubaark>	exit stop set ES @ 1466.25 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	Philly FED Survey
	volatility spike	11:59
	It's not going to sucker me in just yet.
<szubaark>	missed my exit, too fast
	now hopefully ill get another chance	12:00
	Exited 1/2 Long ES at 1470.50 --> + 2 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	Covered ER2 Short @ 778.00 --> - 0.9
	Reverse and Enter Long ER2 @ 778.00
<szubaark>	exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1468.50 «« paper »»
	ES possible double bottom, lets see if Buyers show up	12:02
<NihabaAshi>	We got the volatility but its shaky :(
<szubaark>	yup.. no followthru :(
<NihabaAshi>	starting to look like there's going to be a second price reaction	12:03
	Losing support from other key markets	12:05
<szubaark>	Impossible to hold onto remainders
<NihabaAshi>	szu...there's a lot of change over down here in the s/r zone.	12:07
	Just got to trade through it or stay on the sidelines
<szubaark>	yes, thats the chop zone from this morning
	Exited all Long ES at 1468.50 --> 0 «« paper »»	12:08
	:(
<Guest35179>	Shorts ER2 @ 777.2
<Nesi>	oil moving up	12:09
<Guest35179>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 777.6 --> - 0.4	12:10
<NihabaAshi>	Gold too
<Nesi>	Long YM @ 13255 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	They are trying to find their own support area
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 776.9	12:12
<NihabaAshi>	Oil is a pain in the butt today :(	12:13
<Trader222>	anyone here trade ES options?	12:14
<Nesi>	YM holds well
<NihabaAshi>	Exited ER2 Long @ 776.30 --> - 1.7	12:15
	Reverse and Enter Short ER2 @ 776.30
	It's still the support area...a big one about 2 points wide.	12:16
	I'm getting hit near the extremes :(
<Nesi>	YM may help ER..imho	12:17
<pat255>	y looks like
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 777.2 --> + 0.3
<NihabaAshi>	Key markets still trying to find some support	12:18
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 775.8
<NihabaAshi>	Covered ER2 Short @ 775.20 --> + 1.1	12:19
<Tim_a1>	some nasty 5 finute candles	12:20
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 775.1 --> - 0.7
<pat255>	vn N
<NihabaAshi>	WRB pt1...I gotta take it.
<Tim_a1>	munute
<Nesi>	now YM following a bit to the ER
	YM giving a good fight on this levels..imo	12:21
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 775.2	12:22
<szubaark>	Shorts ES @ 1467.25 «« paper »»	12:24
<Nesi>	"feels" to me a big bounce in the making..imo	12:25
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 775.3 --> + 0.1
<szubaark>	Covered 1/2 Short ES at 1565.50 --> - 98.25 «« paper »»	12:30
	Covered 1/2 Short ES at 1465.50 --> + 1.75 «« paper »»
	exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1467.25 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	I saw ER2 sliced through/below the support area of back to back hammer lines as a volatility breakout about 3 to 4 mins ago.	12:33
	Tough thing to do and it did it easily.
<szubaark>	this is slow, controlled selling.
	Covered all Short ES at 1463.75 --> + 3.5 «« paper »»	12:34
<Nesi>	gold day low
<Tim_a1>	szu, look at monday's dow up volume, then compare it with the volume of the 3 days prior that moday covered with price	12:35
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 773.6	12:37
<Nesi>	DAX sliding down
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 774.5 --> + 0.9	12:38
<Nesi>	Long YM @ 12233 -> Add «« paper »»
<Trader222>	no stowe today?
<NihabaAshi>	Shorts ER2 @ 772.30 -> small size	12:43
<Andy>	Long ER2 @ 772.1 «« testing »»	12:44
<Guest35179>	Shorts ER2 @ 771.9	12:45
<NihabaAshi>	Covered ER2 Short @ 772.00 --> + 0.3	12:46
<Andy>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 772.6 --> + 0.5 «« testing »»	12:47
<NihabaAshi>	shallow volatility spike
<Guest35179>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 772.7 --> - 0.8	12:48
<pdays>	Long ES @ 1464.5	12:52
	Exited all ES Long @ 1465.5 --> + 1	12:53
<NihabaAshi>	Shorts ER2 @ 774.30 -> small size	12:59
	trying something new again...so far today I'm 0 for 2 on the new approach :(	13:00
<Guest35179>	"/setupFT"	13:04
<NihabaAshi>	Covered ER2 Short @ 775.20 --> - 0.9
<X>	#FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders and intermarket analysis of Emini Futures (EMD, ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY)	13:08
<sav>	long er2 7754	13:12
<NihabaAshi>	Long ER2 @ 775.70	13:13
	So far since the lows there has been immediate follow thru to the upside after each volatility spike...price action after my entry seems to be keeping that tradition :(	13:15
<sav>	out @ 7753
<NihabaAshi>	Exited ER2 Long @ 774.50 --> - 1.2	13:18
	Reverse and Enter Short ER2 @ 774.50
* stowe	long ym 13212	13:21
<NihabaAshi>	Covered ER2 Short @ 774.00 --> + 0.5
	I'm documenting that as a "lucky exit" due to the choppy price action "within" contracting volatility.	13:22
* stowe	adds to long ym 13217
<Trader222>	hiya stowe	13:23
* stowe	adds to long ym 13218
<stowe>	gm 222
<Trader222>	you live on west coast?
<stowe>	yes
	sf
<Trader222>	used to live in Southern CA: know/love SF: there for a bit earlier this year; great city	13:24
<stowe>	yes...still beautiful, but the vagrants and other alternative livestyle types have taken it over in certain areas	13:25
* stowe	adds to long ym 13216	13:26
<sav>	long er2 7750	13:27
<Nesi>	BUSH on tv
<stowe>	thanks for the warning nes
<sav>	took 1/3 out @ 7755
	move stop to 7750	13:28
<NihabaAshi>	volatility breakout...so far they've been fading it a little since the intraday lows	13:29
	Shorts ER2 @ 776.00 -> small size	13:31
	Gold in contrast with my position in ER2 :(	13:33
<sav>	move stop er2 on remaining to 7755
<NihabaAshi>	Covered ER2 Short @ 776.90 --> - 0.9	13:34
	Reverse and Enter Long ER2 @ 776.90
<sav>	out er2 remaining 2/3rds at 7770
<Guest35179>	so far Bush not moving mkt too much-he's talking about airline routes being expanded	13:35
* stowe	sells all ym 13251 +39,+39,+34,+34,+33,+33,+35,+35 from 13212 to 13218 longs	13:37
<Trader222>	nice stowe	13:38
	those from today or yesterday yet
<stowe>	all today
<NihabaAshi>	Long ER2 @ 776.20 -> small size
<stowe>	started 10:21pst
* stowe	short ym 13241	13:39
<NihabaAshi>	Prior volatility spike retraced.	13:40
<Trader222>	walking away; cya near 3 for close
<Brutus>	good trade Stowe, enjoyed the discussion yesterday,very informative, read the log after
<stowe>	ty and yer welcome
* stowe	short ym 13241	13:41
	adds to short ym 13237	13:42
<NihabaAshi>	retracement again of the same prior volatility spike	13:43
* stowe	adds to short ym 13241	13:44
	adds to short ym 13238
	adds to short ym 13234	13:45
<NihabaAshi>	It can't be said that ER2 lacked volatility today...its got plenty of it :)	13:46
<sav>	Long er2 7764	13:48
<NihabaAshi>	Reminder -> #FuturesTrades chat room trade posting archived logs are posted @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/RecentTrad es.htm (today's log will be updated tonight by 9pm est)
* stowe	adds to short ym 13245
<sav>	took 1/3 @ 7769 move stop to 7764	13:49
	all out
	short er2 @ 7753	13:53
<stowe>	ym 13177 seems like a good target
<Brutus>	Stowe do you keep a similar stop for all trades? would this short have a tight stop above the prior high?	13:55
<stowe>	i generally stomach 100 ym points against my ave. on each trade
	sometimes i bail at -80 or so	13:56
	but the target is just the next most reasonable goal
<NihabaAshi>	volatility spike downwards	13:57
<stowe>	most trades are actually executed at the next level targets
<sav>	took 1/3 @7748 move stop to 7753
<Brutus>	ok thx
<stowe>	example i actually think ym could hit 13144 today
	i'd like longs at 144	13:58
	but it's always how a "feel" at the moment	13:59
	so stuff changes
<NihabaAshi>	Exited 1/2 ER2 Long @ 773.90 --> - 2.3	14:00
	Exited Remainder ER2 Long @ 773.90 --> - 2.3	14:01
<Brutus>	So soon as you see price action weakness you start to average in, and as long at that scenario holds you keep adding, stating the obvious I guess
<sav>	all out 2/3 rds er2 7733
<NihabaAshi>	That's actually a -3 on that other contract.
<jperl>	done for today....trades here...	14:03
<NihabaAshi>	Long ER2 @ 773.40 -> small size
<jperl>	http://charts.dacharts.com/2007-11-15/JP ERL_014.jpg
<stowe>	well...this always sounds funny when i try to explain this, but i'm constantly having a conversation with myself on how i'm interpreting the market...most people do this and let their frustrations interupt the conversation...once you filter that out and adhere to simple principles, your experience in "seeing" market price action will dominate your "personal conversation" that you have with yourself	14:04
<NihabaAshi>	trading the same new setup again
	1 for 5 today on that setup so far
<Tim_a1>	ym 144 being the bottom of the 11/09 ym gap, stowe?	14:05
<Andy>	continue, stowe, what are those principles?
<stowe>	most people can express their feelings, but it takes practice to listen to the constructive ones
<cmr>	Stowe, what timeframe do you use to spot your targets? (If I can ask)	14:06
<sav>	Yes Stowe alot of good traders say its important to listen to your feelings whilst trading in order to become more intuitive	14:07
<stowe>	your mind constantly puts out the best decisions along with noise that contains second guessing and frustrated drivel...it's possible to filter out that unwanted drivel and focus on the constructive thoughts
<Brutus>	Never used large targets like you do stove. I trade of the 6s, 1m 5m and hourly	14:09
	6s gets the good entries for scalps etc	14:10
<NihabaAshi>	I got support on the Long but so far...not paying off within the contracting volatility
<stowe>	but i've found that releying on outside influences to make those decisions unless they're real indicators such as "the philly fed announces such and such number" etc... is a waste of time because their language is not the same language as what your mind is used to
<Andy>	Long ER2 @ 733.0 «« paper »»	14:12
<NihabaAshi>	Only investors follow the actual economic numbers...traders follow the price action :)
<stowe>	wrong
<NihabaAshi>	Actually, economists follow the numbers :)
<Brutus>	wyckoff spring on the ym	14:13
<Andy>	Exited 1/2 ER2 Long @ 773.70 --> + 40.7 «« paper »»
<stowe>	fading these announcements is a great trade many times
<Andy>	oops, wrong number, meant 733.70
<NihabaAshi>	stowe...most do that in here already without having to interpret the specific economic number...	14:14
	Just trade the price action (good or bad).
<stowe>	i couldn't care less what the number is
<NihabaAshi>	Need to be an economist to understand the numbers.
<Andy>	Exited Remainder ER2 Long @ 773.20 --> + 40.2 «« paper »»
<stowe>	it's when they ramp or tank into the number that creates what i look for
<sav>	short er2 7722
<NihabaAshi>	Only one trader in here has an academic background in Economics and he's a lurker :)	14:15
<sav>	stopped out 7732 :(
<NihabaAshi>	Like I said...traders trade the price action of an economic report...
<sav>	wow that didnt take long
<NihabaAshi>	Investors try to understand the specific numbers.	14:16
	Two different types of market participants.
	ER2 keeps getting sucked back into that 1.70 quicksand range :(	14:17
<Nesi>	IF we bounce...probably its going to be a a great bounce..imho	14:18
<NihabaAshi>	It's going to need some help to get that bounce.
	So far...other ke markets unwilling to help.
<codehead>	crude surge	14:19
<Nesi>	to me it "looks" like yesterday..but the other way around
<codehead>	nearing the close on crude, big spike up
<NihabaAshi>	:(	14:20
	Exited ER2 Long @ 773.50 --> + 0.1
<Nesi>	its happening "so far"	14:21
	IF DOW goes near -15 or so.. "probably" it may go up like crazy today..IMHO	14:22
<NihabaAshi>	will try again
	Long ER2 @ 774.30 -> small size	14:24
	Exited ER2 Long @ 775.50 --> + 1.2	14:28
	Reached profit target and got 2 ticks more than the trading plan	14:29
	Long ER2 @ 775.60 -> small size	14:31
<Nesi>	big push	14:32
<sav>	long er2 7759
<Nesi>	DAX "may" follow US market
	bouncing a bit now
<NihabaAshi>	Eventually there will be follow-through on these volatility spikes in the interval that follows...
	Until then...keep doing what you do best.	14:33
	If its not good...stay on the sidelines and study the markets.
	Anybody trading the Eurex DAX right now ???	14:34
<Nesi>	not me, but reading it	14:35
<werner>	no
<NihabaAshi>	Nesi, who's your data provider for the DAX ???
<Nesi>	same, open e cry
<NihabaAshi>	Ahhh...ok.
<Nesi>	yup	14:36
<sav>	stopped out 7749	14:37
<NihabaAshi>	Long ER2 @ 773.90 -> small size	14:38
	same volatility spike ADD out of contracting volatility as the prior big loss	14:39
<szubaark>	where is your Stop on this?
<NihabaAshi>	szu...my stop answers never change :)	14:40
	Always the same :)
	4 point emergency hard stop
<szubaark>	i know u have 4 Max
	:)
<NihabaAshi>	Mental stop for exiting or reversing decisions being tested right now (2 points).	14:41
<szubaark>	volatility spike to the downside :(
<sav>	i really thought it was going up :(
<NihabaAshi>	Only thing differrent this time is that the volatility spike enter a s/r zone.	14:42
	Prior ones went below the zones
<szubaark>	Shorts ES @ 1461 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	Exited ER2 Long @ 772.20 --> - 1.7	14:43
	Reverse and Enter Short ER2 @ 772.20
<szubaark>	Covered 1/2 Short ES at 1459.75 --> + 1.25 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	Math is incorrect (its a bigger loss)...
	Will post info after I close this Short
<szubaark>	exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1461 «« paper »»	14:44
* stowe	covers some ym 13177 to 13174 +64,+67,+64,+67,+60,+63,+64 from 13241 to 13237 shorts
<Nesi>	very nice, Stowe
<stowe>	tanks nes
<szubaark>	Lets see if that Volatility spike has more "juice"
	[14:41] <sav> i really thought it was going up :(	14:45
<NihabaAshi>	its got some help to go lower....ER2 not taking advantage so far to go lower
<szubaark>	Markets doesnt care what anybody thinks
<NihabaAshi>	:)
<szubaark>	we got a nice WRB now, hopefully it doesnt get retraced "much"
<Tim_a1>	i looks kike yo9ur 144 may be coming stowe	14:46
	very bad typos there
<NihabaAshi>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 771.90 --> + 0.3
<Tim_a1>	'looks like your 144 may be coing stowe
<stowe>	yeAh mAbe aT leasT i hOpE so tIM	14:47
<NihabaAshi>	needed to dump that to catch up on some notes
<stowe>	ofcOURse i cOUld B Rong	14:48
<szubaark>	i need this to move in next 5 minutes or im out.
<Trader222>	dang it; was gone the wrong 18minutes I see :(
<Tim_a1>	my irc monitor is to my left, in periferal vision	14:49
<stowe>	you're good at that 222
<Trader222>	2days in row
	from now on: I shall charge you all whenever I leave
<stowe>	get a urnal
<Trader222>	nope :) wasn't a pee break today; hadda deal with something outside
<stowe>	yard work?	14:50
<szubaark>	222 u take Visa or Mastercard?
<stowe>	plumbing?
<pirate>	hi, am new to room, just to give brief intro - am a YM trader, mainly scalps ju
<Trader222>	roofer
<stowe>	tar?
<Trader222>	skylight install
<NihabaAshi>	That incorrect prior trade I was talking about that showed only a -1.70 should have "also" showed a -3.4	14:51
<Tim_a1>	178 was 11/12 ym high
<NihabaAshi>	I'm still above my profit goal for the day but can't take a big hit again on these volatility trades.
<Andy>	that's okay, NihabaAshi, I made 80 points on a practice trade today when the market only moved .4	14:52
<Brutus>	11/15/2007 14:51 *DJ Fed's Hoenig: Says U.S. Economic Outlook Uncertain
<NihabaAshi>	lol
	Well...I don't have a method for SCALPING and I'm trying to develop one...	14:53
<szubaark>	Covered all Short ES at 1457.25 --> + 3.75 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	It's painful so far these past few months as the plan gets develop and other days its peachy.	14:54
	:)
<pirate>	looking to short YM at 13178, under 20 ema on 1 min chart
<NihabaAshi>	Long ER2 @ 770.80 -> small size	14:55
	Exited ER2 Long @ 770.40 --> - 0.4	14:57
	Reverse and Enter Short ER2 @ 770.40
	breakdown below the Dark Hammer line
<Tim_a1>	145 stowe, close enough	14:58
	but newst time, we prefer that you are not a point off
<Andy>	Long ER2 @ 769.8 «« paper »»
<Tim_a1>	lol
<stowe>	lol	14:59
<Nesi>	i have low at 144
	gone now
<Brutus>	10 year at 4.16
<Tim_a1>	144
<NihabaAshi>	volatility spike again...looking to exit
<Andy>	Exited Remainder ER2 Long @ 768.8 --> - 1 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 768.60 --> + 1.8	15:00
<werner>	nice niha
* stowe	covers remaining ym 13144 to 13139 +97,+102,+97,+99,+99,+92,+95, +101,+106,+104 from 13234 to 13245 shorts
<Tim_a1>	wtg
<NihabaAshi>	WRB exit...second that worked until the target was reached.
	Could start a win streak here that leads into the close :)	15:01
<Brutus>	excellent trade st
<Trader222>	nice trading
* stowe	long ym 13145 ty tim and brut
<stowe>	and 222
* stowe	adds to long ym 13153	15:02
	adds to long ym 13147
	adds to long ym 13151	15:03
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 769.4
* stowe	adds to long ym 13153
<NihabaAshi>	Support from Oil and Gold
	Volatility contracting in ER2	15:04
* stowe	adds to long ym 13156
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 770.3 --> + 0.9
<NihabaAshi>	Long ER2 @ 769.90 -> small size
* stowe	adds to long ym 13146	15:05
<yayaa>	G'day everyone
* stowe	adds to long ym 13151
	adds to long ym 13139	15:06
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 768.6
<NihabaAshi>	Exited ER2 Long @ 769.00 --> - 0.9	15:07
	Reverse and Enter Short ER2 @ 769.00
<Guest35179>	Covered ER2 Short @ 768.5 --> + 0.1
* stowe	adds to long ym 13127
<Guest35179>	Reverse and Enter Long ER2 @ 768.5
<yayaa>	Long YM 128
<NihabaAshi>	volatility spike...it needs to hold so I can exit at a profit
* stowe	adds to long ym 13132
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 769.1 --> + 0.6	15:08
<yayaa>	Covered YM long @ 138 + 10 pts.	15:09
<stowe>	yeehae yaya
<NihabaAshi>	Covered ER2 Short @ 769.50 --> - 0.5
	Reverse and Enter Long ER2 @ 769.50
<stowe>	i've been wanting to say that
	oh i misspelled it
<yayaa>	Has a ring to it:))))))
<stowe>	yeehaw yaya
<NihabaAshi>	ER2 has its own support here	15:10
<stowe>	notice though,,...that i didn't misspell misspell
<X>	#FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders and intermarket analysis of Emini Futures (EMD, ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY)	15:11
<Guest35179>	Shorts ER2 @ 768.5	15:12
* stowe	adds to long ym 13120
<yayaa>	Long YM 120
<NihabaAshi>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 768.20 --> - 1.3
	volatility spik
* stowe	adds to long ym 13122
<Guest35179>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 768.1 --> + 0.4
* stowe	adds to long ym 13127	15:13
<base>	4	15:14
	oops	15:15
<yayaa>	Sold YM's 135 +15 pts.:)
<stowe>	you're on a roll
<Nesi>	long DAX 7622.0 paper
<stowe>	ym 13177 seems like a reasonable target	15:16
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 768.3
<stowe>	is this reasonable to you YM?
<Nesi>	DAX bouncing a bit
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 769 --> + 0.7
<NihabaAshi>	contracting volatity
	Nesi...are you only following the DAX by itself.	15:18
<Nesi>	no
<NihabaAshi>	Meaning do you also watch FTSE100 and CAC40 when they are open ???
<Nesi>	i just followed intraday
	i will see if open e cry has those two..thanks
<NihabaAshi>	Those Open eCry offer data on the FTSE and CAC ???	15:19
<Nesi>	i am asking
<NihabaAshi>	:)
	Long ER2 @ 769.70
	volatility spike again
	Need a winner here to stay above my profit goal of the day.	15:20
<Nesi>	what i see is the DAX follows nicely
<NihabaAshi>	volatility spike	15:21
<yayaa>	Stowe this little spike not supported by meaningful Vol.?????
<Stowe>	i like unmeaningful volume	15:22
	it never means anything anyway
<yayaa>	I totally and respectfully disagree,vol. to me is meaningful	15:23
<Stowe>	what does it tell ya?
<Nesi>	with some more love.. DAX may probably will take 7640 imo
<Guest35179>	Shorts ER2 @ 772.1
<yayaa>	Short YM's 168	15:24
<Stowe>	what if the whole day is thin and the market bounce 100's of points anyway?
<NihabaAshi>	Volume Analysis is a tough nut to crack.
	I couldn't do it and take my hat off to those that can use it.	15:25
<Guest35179>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 771.6 --> + 0.5
<Nesi>	push
<NihabaAshi>	Second volatility spike after my entry
<Nesi>	DAX following again
* Stowe	sells some ym 13177 +32,+32,+24,+24,+30,+30,+26,+26,+24,+21 from 13145 to 13153 longs
<Guest35179>	Long ER2 @ 773.9
<NihabaAshi>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 773.30 --> + 3.6	15:26
<yayaa>	Doubled YM short @ 183
<NihabaAshi>	That helps keep me above my profit goal.
<Guest35179>	Exited all ER2 Long @ 773.1 --> - 0.8
<NihabaAshi>	yayaa...are you using volume analysis as a "confirmation tool" or as a "primary entry or exit signal" ???	15:28
	For example, I primarily use Volatility Analysis as a "confirmation tool".	15:29
	I'm currently trying to design an entry/exit method out of volatility analysis.
	Two different beast in many ways.
<Guest35179>	Shorts ER2 @ 771.4	15:30
<yayaa>	Covered all YM shorts @ 155 + 20 pts.
<Nesi>	vn	15:31
<NihabaAshi>	29mins from the "infamous" volatility spike
* Stowe	sells all ym 13170 to 13173 +31,+41,+36,+31,+46,+41,+53,+48,+43 from 13156 to 13120 longs
<Guest35179>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 770.1 --> + 1.3
<yayaa>	Darn It to quick on the profit trigger:((
* Stowe	long ym 13130	15:32
<NihabaAshi>	yayaa...please see my prior post (questions) about your volume analysis use.
	Thanks.
	You don't need to go into any details.
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13125
	adds to long ym 13123	15:33
	adds to long ym 13127
<NihabaAshi>	volatility spike followed by a volatility breakout.
<yayaa>	Nih, Use 2 day 15 min. chart,simply noticed positive spike had no support with my vol. indicators
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13124
<NihabaAshi>	Positive spike as in the price itself didn't have any support from volume ?	15:34
<yayaa>	Over an hour of down vol. followed by a spike was a short IMHO.
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13118
	adds to long ym 13107
	adds to long ym 13100	15:35
<NihabaAshi>	YOu're using pure volume itself of a volume derived indicator ?
	of = or
	volatility spike again
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13105
<yayaa>	Yes pure vol.I admit to being a novice,	15:36
<NihabaAshi>	Shorts ER2 @ 766.90 -> small size
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13096
<NihabaAshi>	Back to 1 contract only
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13098
<yayaa>	Coupled with pivot points seems to work for me,very quick trades
<NihabaAshi>	Ahhh...that's the missing clue :)	15:37
	You're using it in combo with Pivot Point Analysis
<Stowe>	well it was a good trade yayaa
<yayaa>	My charts see Pivot points,Vol. Macd and Exp. Mov. Avg.
<NihabaAshi>	:(	15:38
<yayaa>	You guys are WAY ahead of my curve, I STILL can't download the script:((	15:39
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13090
<NihabaAshi>	not getting what I want here
	Covered ER2 Short @ 767.30 --> - 0.4
	Reverse and Enter Long ER2 @ 767.30
* Stowe	adds to long ym 13087	15:40
<yayaa>	Long YM 087
<Stowe>	ym 13144 seems reasonable	15:42
<NihabaAshi>	Exited ER2 Long @ 769.70 --> + 2.4
<Guest35179>	Shorts ER2 @ 769.7
<NihabaAshi>	lucky additional +1.2 points
<yayaa>	Sold YM's @ 115 + 28 pts.	15:43
<Guest35179>	Covered all ER2 Short @ 770.6 --> - 0.9	15:44
<yayaa>	short YM 142	15:45
<NihabaAshi>	With this volatility spike followed by a volatility breakout so close to the 4pm est volatility spike...	15:47
	It should produce a very interesting 4pm close.
	On that note...I'm staying on the sidelines and will just watch...	15:48
	Simply, if I don't understand it...best to just sit in the stands and cheer :)
<yayaa>	Doubled up YM short here @ 164
<NihabaAshi>	I also manage to stay above my 1.5k profit goal for the day after briefly dropping below it via some consecutive volatility trades.	15:49
<yayaa>	Covered all YM shorts @ 145 + 8 pts.	15:50
<NihabaAshi>	Your welcome Bern.	15:51
	Old message...sorry
	Anyways, my first three trades of the day on some nice size gave me my profits for the day...
	The goal is to do the same until the end of November because this is a key tendency month for the futures and eventually something will breakout big time.	15:52
<yayaa>	Darn It,Pulled the trigger early yet again
<Tim_a1>	some violent stuff last 15 minutes	15:53
<NihabaAshi>	volatility dropping now
	It's preparing for the 4pm spike.
<yayaa>	Nih, If Dow holds 12,845 next week,VERY BULLISH IMHO	15:54
	Huge down vol. last 1/2 hr. on the YM's	15:55
* Stowe	sells all ym 13144 to 13148 +14,+14,+19,+17,+20,+26,+30,+41,+48,+43, +52,+50,+54,+52,+57 from 13130 to 13087 longs
WRB Analysis	Learn More
<Tim_a1>	nice stowe	15:56
<Stowe>	ty...took forever to type that
<Trader222>	rofl;
<Tim_a1>	evening star formation on dow monthly chart?
<Trader222>	very nice
	wow; that is one ugly red candle on Dow monthly	15:57
<NihabaAshi>	yayaa...although I don't trade my Bias because I prefer to use position size management to manage my Bias...
	I've been Bullish big time all month.	15:58
<yayaa>	Trader,Dow key support # is 12,845
<NihabaAshi>	Yet, most of my trades and large position sizes has occurred on Shorts this month.
<Tim_a1>	going back 10 years, no eving star on dow monthly, until now
<Trader222>	tape so red today; but 2 best ROI trades today were AAPL Long Calls - love OpX Week with risk accounts
<NihabaAshi>	Simply, I'm not trading my bias but I am using position size management to manage the risks associated with my Bias.
	Volatility spike and a minute early	15:59
<Nesi>	thanks all	16:01
<Brutus>	============ U.S. MARKETS ACTION ===========
	DJIA down 114.54 points to 13108.10
	NASDAQ down 26.75 points to 2616.82
	S&P 500 down 19.90 points to 1450.63
	10-year T-note up 90/32 at 100 21/32 yield 4.167
	NYMEX Spot Crude up $0.06 at $93.49/bbl
	Dollar/Euro down 0.0030 at 1.4619
<NihabaAshi>	Another way to explain it...
<Brutus>	http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/tda meritrade-com/html-story.asp?guid={8f635 2f1-e091-4ec8-ae48-7385805a8e56}
<NihabaAshi>	My technical analysis said Bullish and my understanding of the markets said Bearish.
<NihabaAshi>	A conflict but I know its not all about TA.
<Stowe>	you know...that "all" is a nice guy
<NihabaAshi>	stowe...we do have two resident "psychologists" #FuturesTrades members...clinical and academic degree only.	16:04
	Be careful, they may pm you.	16:05
	:)
<Tim_a1>	dow 10 year monthly chart looks interesting, there was about 3000 points from bottom up to consolidation, then about 3000 above consolidation, now an evening star
<Stowe>	makes sense to me
	fed wants a recession...we'll get a recession	16:06
<Tim_a1>	and the 200 month aveg is now at the l2003 bottom
	2003
<NihabaAshi>	Watching the close yielded no useful info for me...
	Time to do my market wrap notes.
	Take care all, I need to start early today with all the trades.	16:07
<yayaa>	If we hold 12,845 BULLS will rule foe Massive move imho
<NihabaAshi>	Take care and see all tomorrow.
<Tim_a1>	gn nih
* NihabaAshi	is now known as NihabaAshi_away
<yayaa>	G'day everyone, fun hour and 1/2. As always Good Fortune to all	16:08
<Brutus>	gn	16:11
	i should say gm,7am here	16:12
<Tim_a1>	where are you brutus?	16:13
<Tim_a1>	what do you make of dow monthly chart stowe?	16:16
<Stowe>	i looked
	and it's interesting
	like i say...it makes sense
	you can make a very stong case for bearishness here longer term	16:17
	much harder to make strong case for bullishness
<Tim_a1>	i look at spx monthly, for last 10 years all you had to do was short below 20 long, long above it
<Stowe>	fed will continue to reduce int. rates	16:18
<Tim_a1>	20 month
<Stowe>	generally until they've stopped and only after they start raising again, will the market find a bottom
	ofc...that means i might have some "academic background"...to say that	16:19
	lol
<Tim_a1>	i try to keek a short term 'evidence' focus, but it really looks like we may be changing trend	16:21
* sep34	is now known as sep34_away	16:24
<Stowe>	if the trend is changing...it's at the beginning
<Tim_a1>	it's not confirmed
<Stowe>	fed could drop int. rates for a couple of years
	tons of reasons why we are going into recession	16:25
	big deficits
	higher taxes coming
	health care and medicare broke
	commercial paper crisis	16:26
	terror threats
	markets have run up for a long time
	hoising crisis not over
	housing crisis not over
	high oil prices	16:27
	falling dollar
<Tim_a1>	could have made those arguements a few years ago - i'm more convinced that it goes up until it's done going up
<Stowe>	yep...could happen	16:28
	but inevitably, what goes up must come down
	the fed has engineered this
	they love it
<Tim_a1>	housing bubble is one of the most evil things i've ever seen	16:30
<Stowe>	yes, but the money is great
<Tim_a1>	beliberately created by greenspan
<Stowe>	ofc
	the only wealth generator for the banks	16:31
<Tim_a1>	money stolen from savers and thrown at housing
<Stowe>	and in this case for everyone who was savvy enough to take advantage of
	but that's capitalism
	just like futures
	the savvy prey on the weak	16:32
<Tim_a1>	i think it actually goes beyond capitalism, when currency manipulators rig the system
<Stowe>	like the usa and 3rd world countries
<Tim_a1>	cm being the fed
<Stowe>	but currency manipulators are always doing this
	this is what our system has become	16:33
	selling debt. for tax-payer equity
<Tim_a1>	yes, and i agree it's acedemic, you adapt in win, or fight and lose
<Stowe>	and unfortuately, unless our economy keeps growing, it will all come crashing down	16:34
	there is nothing we can do about it	16:35
<Tim_a1>	other than observe futures correctly
	which i fully intend to do
<Stowe>	the only way to avoid economic armagedon is to die before it happens	16:36
<Tim_a1>	you've really had some impressive swings, i like wider swings because tick in, tick out and commish can eat you up
<Stowe>	ty
	i feel that trading noise is unproductive	16:37
<Tim_a1>	the wider the swing, the smaller those factors get
<Stowe>	yes, but accepting the loss is harder
	there's always a tradeoff
<Tim_a1>	do you have a metal buffer of 'house money' from prior wins to get you through it?	16:38
	mental
<Stowe>	well...i don't trade a large portion of my net total if that's what you mean	16:39
<Tim_a1>	by 'house' i mean the casino ie market	16:40
<Stowe>	generally if you're past the holy grail chase from your newbie years and you've been trading for a little longer, i think trading no more than 10% of your total is a good rule to stick with	16:41
<Tim_a1>	you said you dont use indicators, is your scale in points intuition?	16:43
<Stowe>	"holy grail chase" includes using these "indicators" and trying to explain market moves, and airing out your frustrations instead of focusing on the task at hand
<Tim_a1>	chart indicators lag, period, but ma's can at least suggest support and resistence
<Stowe>	well...scaling is actually for two reasons in my case
	one...i like to catch grabs	16:44
	two...i generally am a shot-gun trader
	i have a tendency to want the big goal now...so if i parse it out, it helps lower the ave. along with reducing the initial exposure	16:45
<Tim_a1>	but how do you sense when it's time to get in and out, if you dont mind my asking, seems like you're right more than wrong
<Stowe>	well...i just keep track of resist/support levels and use those as a guide	16:46
	today was as good an example as any
<Tim_a1>	yes
	i've noticed that patience in using them works, seems like the market always hits then , but take a path that convinces you it wont	16:47
<Stowe>	i i had 212 area long
	and i noticed that the 248 area had some resist
	that became a target
	250 to about 270 there became a short entry	16:48
	and 177 area became a target because it was a longer term support	16:49
<Tim_a1>	245 was the center of yesterday late afternoon's bounce
<Stowe>	144 became support actually...remember ...then 177 became resist etc.	16:50
<Tim_a1>	178 was the top between the double bottom
<Stowe>	keep track of these but accept that they will change
	allow a good trade to run and let new r/s areas develop	16:51
<Tim_a1>	of 11/11 & 11/12
<Stowe>	never cast anything in stone
	and try not to "predict" anything
	accept that you'll be wrong....etc...etc...
<Tim_a1>	yes, i've noticed that the new support and resist can develop as good volume dojis	16:52
<Stowe>	also try not to focus on any one thing...never fall in love with anything
	be ready to throw it out the window	16:53
<Tim_a1>	i know what you mean about being flexible, you can lock in your mind a past support/resistence, and ignore one being formed right in front of you
<Stowe>	that's the purpose of that "inner conversation" i mentioned
<Tim_a1>	well, i appreciate your comments here	16:55
	i'm in iowa, these candidates are driving me bonkers	16:56
<Stowe>	lol
	commercials evety 2 min?
<Tim_a1>	cant wait for them to pack their carpet bags and get the hell out of here
	news, commercials, plus seeing them live everywhere	16:57
	heard hillary on my main street
<Stowe>	small state
	not very much ground to cover
<Tim_a1>	my sister lives in bay area, says very little political advertising
<Stowe>	and most of it is wheat
<Tim_a1>	corn, wheat is kansas	16:58
<Stowe>	well...cause the liberals own this area
	they don't have to advertise
<Tim_a1>	true
<Stowe>	10-year note down to 4.14
<Tim_a1>	i worked in high tech, h-1b visas killed me, and every one of them supports it
	'them' = candidates	16:59
	silocn vally execs say candidates use sv at ATM machine
<Stowe>	well...according to nancy pelosi and babra boxer...they do the jobs we won't do
<Tim_a1>	hillary comes to ames iowa in a private jet	17:00
<Stowe>	ofc
<Tim_a1>	i socked money away, and got the hell out
<Stowe>	warming as long as we don't ask her to do it
	we're supposed to worry about global warming as long as we don't ask her to do it	17:01
<Tim_a1>	she has a 'green' private jet
<Stowe>	lol
<Tim_a1>	and reads about the environment while she rides it	17:02
<Stowe>	it runs on corn syrup?
<Tim_a1>	i really hate those people
	i just dont see how a country can remain great with such chuckleads running it
<Stowe>	you live in ames?	17:03
<Tim_a1>	yes
<Stowe>	is that pool hall still there?
<Tim_a1>	it never was -
<Stowe>	they didn't film anything there?
<Tim_a1>	i dont think it was filmed on location	17:04
<Stowe>	oh
<Tim_a1>	i didnt recognise anything
<Stowe>	a great movie tho
<Tim_a1>	it's interesting
	gleason's always good
<Stowe>	i liked all the aspects of making a living through hustling	17:05
	i hustled poker when i was younger
<Tim_a1>	sf is a beautiful place, i've rested harley's out there when i see my syster	17:06
	rented
<Stowe>	as a matter of fact...i've gambled all my life
	yes...but it's foggy
<Tim_a1>	working for ernst & young made me a gambler, most reckless people i've ever seen, not conservative at all	17:07
<Stowe>	i was trying to make that point yesterday
<Tim_a1>	that this is gambling?
<Stowe>	risk is required if you want to make a living
	yes...it's gambling	17:08
<Tim_a1>	douglass mcarthur said 'there is no security, only opportunity'
<Stowe>	but it's "managed gambling"
	right
<Tim_a1>	i becamae a computer contracted because i saw that if you're not winning, you're losing, there is no security	17:09
	contractor
<Stowe>	my point yesterday before i was told that "understanding markets" is required...was that because it's a risk that must be accepted, it can also be managed such that the guy on the other side of the trade loses	17:10
<Tim_a1>	but left that because i could not manage risk, business was so dishonest
<Stowe>	you think these "they" guys controlling this market are more honest?	17:11
	i love it because of the manipulation
<Tim_a1>	no, they're equally diswhonest, but at least i can control the size of my bet
	in computer contracting, via outright fraud i could not	17:12
<Stowe>	without manipulation...markets would flatten to a thin crepe suzette
<Tim_a1>	i do not listen to business news at all	17:13
	because it gives me bias
<Stowe>	what kind of biz news?	17:14
<Tim_a1>	any, really
<Stowe>	earnings, and who becomes the ceo etc...?
<Tim_a1>	cnbc, bloomberg etc
<Stowe>	neither do i
	stocks bore me
	but economic stuff is critical i think	17:15
<Tim_a1>	i found that with stocks, i always got blindsided by the indexes
<Stowe>	that's another thing i was getting at today
	fading economic number announcements
	barry bonds just got indicted	17:16
	lying and obstruction of justice	17:17
	funny
	who cares about stroids?
<Tim_a1>	oj is playing golf while waiting for court
<X>	#FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for traders and intermarket analysis of Emini Futures (EMD, ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, XLE, QQQQ, SPY)
<Stowe>	let him beef up as much as he wants
	yeah oj...lol	17:18
<Tim_a1>	he thinks the 'real killers' may be hiding on the golf course
<Stowe>	lol
<Tim_a1>	well, gotta go, thanks for your input, it's very helpfull	17:19
<Stowe>	yw
<Tim_a1>	you had a pretty good day
<Stowe>	cya tamari bring a bottle of campari
	yes i did
<Tim_a1>	mine was ok too	17:20
<Stowe>	just around the corner....etc...
<Tim_a1>	see you tomorrow
<Stowe>	cya
	call if you get work
	don't let the bed bugs bite
<codehead>	hey, bedbugs are making a comeback cuz of DDT ban	17:21
	seriously
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