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#FuturesTrades October 13th Friday 2006 Trade Log

#FuturesTrades is a private and free realtime trading posting chat room on the IRC Othernet server that allows traders from all over the world to communicate.

Click here for the instructions on gaining access to #FuturesTrades.

In addition, trades posted by members of #FuturesTrades in the below trade post chat log are by traders that do not have access to TheStrategyLab.com strategies except for NihabaAshi.

Fee-based clients of TheStrategyLab.com strategies use the private IRC rooms called #TheStrategyLab and #SwingTradingTSL.

Further, you'll find below the chat room time stamped text log of realtime trades (real money and simulator) that were posted by full-time, part-time traders from around the world and the timestamp is eastern standard time (est). 

Also, below NihabaAshi's trading blog like comments, you can read the time stamped trades (prices, entries, exits et cetera) and market discussions that sometimes contains trading tips or insights that are more useful than what you will see at any other futures blog or chat room.

Trading Blog Below is not your traditional trader's blog in the usual blog format. However, you will find informative commentary on a few occasions as time permits and such will contain trading tips that should help your trading as I attempt to sum up my thoughts as I traversed from the first trade to the last trade that was posted in #FuturesTrades realtime trade posting chat room. 









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+21.20 +0.0000
$2,120.00 $0.00

Trading Perspective

Profit/Loss Blotter

Today's profits reflect closing a swing trade (Long position) that was opened on Wednesday.

I just had too many personal stuff to do that needed my full attention...preventing me from properly managing the trade had it remained open.

The target for the trade was +30 ER2 points (8.80 points shy of reaching that target) and I'll just wait for the next swing opportunity as explained with some details in the chat log over the past several trading days...

Higher intraday high followed by a new intraday low to a WRB support zone.

Today's results (real money and simulator trading) shown above are that of NihabaAshi only. To see his total accumulated points for the month of October...click here. To see results for the months of 2006 and prior years...click here.

Commentary by M.A. Perry (a.k.a. NihabaAshi)  

Note: Each month there are a few trading days that we consider to involve interconnecting key price action of different markets and such is represented by a particular type of price action from one of the key markets. You can view the charts and their clues that's associated with the key price action at our key market archives.


Session Start: Fri Oct 13 09:20:44 2006Session Ident: #futurestrades
* Now  #FuturesTrades purpose and benefits...click here. 09:20
<X> [NihabaAshi] #FuturesTrades info @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/FuturesTradesChatRoom.htm and trade log archives @ http://www.thestrategylab.com/RecentTrades.htm
<NihabaAshi> I'm going to close out my swing trade due to the fact I won't be able to monitor it properly today.09:21
<eminitrader> morn all
<Chilly> gm09:22
<asuni> gm niha, emini, chilly, gm all
<NihabaAshi> I have to take care of some immigration paper work and estate planning stuff that had originally been scheduled for next week.
* szubaark_awau is now known as szubaark
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for realtime trade posting by traders of Emini Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, QQQQ, SPY)09:24
<ItalianSharp> morning everyone
interesting discussion yesterday in this room...thanks les and thanks emini for sharing yr views09:25
<PapaJon> gm all
<eminitrader> urw ..ISharp
<ItalianSharp> when markets get quiet today, i'm give my two cents and add a few considerations based on my personal experience that connect very well with both les' and emini's arguments09:26
<eminitrader> piont is ..we r all here to make a living ..and sharing various perspectives will help us as well as others to acheive their goals09:28
<ItalianSharp> very true
<szubaark> Note: Due to my bad performance last couple weeks Im going back to Paper trading until I show improvement.09:29
<ItalianSharp> i am curious to see if this crazy markets keep going up today

wise thing to do szu09:30
<yo> gm niha ,all
<eminitrader> just wondering if ES will close yest.. gap sometime today ?
<ItalianSharp> as soon as you get your confidence back, go back real
<pat255> gm all
<eminitrader> totally agree ..this will do u good szu...and no REVENGE trades...loss is a loss that will and is going to happen as long as ur in this biz09:31
<ItalianSharp> amongst the many books that can help on trading psychology, "TRADING IN THE ZONE" is a good one...have you ever read it szu?09:32
<NihabaAshi>  Exited ER2 Long (swing trade from Weds) @ 763.00 -> +21.20
Trading Edge: 


If your an independent trader looking for an edge to help you traverse around obstacles to profitable trading...a method that's well defined, gives you a better understanding of the markets, applicable for day trading, position trading and swing trading with a money back guaranteed policy...click here.
   Trading Strategies ->   These strategies will reveal and explain specific strategies from entry to exit that exploit inefficiencies in the price action of your trading instrument for profits in the following trading instruments: Emini Index Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Index Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Index Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Energy Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM), Forex Currencies (EurUsd, EurYen, UsdCdn), Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, OIH, IWM, QQQQ, SPY, XLE) and Hang Seng Index Futures (HSI) 
<les> the only thing slightly more certain than that is tomorrow's sunrise
<eminitrader> thinking otherwise is living in denial...why fight it ? will only get emotional pains leading to even worse results09:33
<les> excellent book
<pat255> vn niha
<ItalianSharp> glad you agree les, since you are a professional in this field
<les> :)
<pat255> les ty for the good points yesterday...very helpful
<eminitrader> thats my goal...way to go niha09:34
<les> yw
<szubaark> Italian yes..Ive read it. Main problem i see is these uptrends are done in a small range channels where i keep getting chopped up due to bad entries
<ItalianSharp> i was particularly shocked when i compared my answers to the questionnaire at the beginning with the answers to the very same questions at the end of the book...

75% of them were different
<eminitrader> guys..that book is my bible
<WannaBeBOS> is that the one by mark douglas?09:35
<NihabaAshi> I closed out that Long (swing trade) due to the fact I won't be able to monitor it properly today.
I have to take care of some immigration paper work and estate planning stuff that had originally been scheduled for next week.
* NihabaAshi is now known as NihabaAshi_away
<ItalianSharp> WB, yes
<WannaBeBOS> thx
<eminitrader> good luck on the immigration stuff niha
<les> i got my eye on 2 wrb's with hidden gaps on er2 daily09:39

yesterday, and 2weeks ago

<pat255> on 3 min chart les?
<les> daily
<pat255> kty09:40
<ItalianSharp> les, those are nice gaps...gotta be patient and wait for the market to make a turn though...this thing keeps going up...reminds me of late 90's09:41
<les> IS, i wouldnt be fooled by this action...
look at 12/9...
took a week before that one filled09:42
<eminitrader> exactly IS...was waiting for a fill 1368..40% fib from yest..move...no luck
<ItalianSharp> yep
nevertheless, i think that when markets turn southward, its gonna be a tough landing09:43
<les> oh yes...

shorting time for me :)
<eminitrader> what makes u gys say that ?
<les> say what?09:44
<ItalianSharp> tough landing you mean?
<eminitrader> yep
<les> i didnt say that
<WannaBeBOS> lol09:45
<ItalianSharp> i said that
earnings arent very good and this uprise looks a little artificial to me...the thing is as soon as people see stocks going up and up and up and make new highs, they all wanna jump on board regardless...09:46
<eminitrader> because as per my read ES shld have retraced to around 1325-1330 ..before the move upto 1380-1385...based on 4th qtr results ..after that move i was lost

what i mean is without the retrace if it hits 138509:47
<szubaark>  Buys NQ @ 1733 paper
<eminitrader> but 4th qtr are good earnings

anyways why waste outr time over this...mrkt does what it wants to do...09:48
<ItalianSharp> emini, you seem to use fib a lot...do you think its a self fulfilling prophecy, i.e everyone uses it and so its the crowd that makes it worth? or do you think it has some inherent value in it?
emini, exactly...charts speak by themselves09:49
trade what you see, not what you think it should happen
<eminitrader> dont know ...dont care...all i do know is it works in combination with my other indicator :)
<ItalianSharp> good approach...like your answer...lol
<jperl> what indicator do you use emini09:50
<eminitrader> sma and ema
<jperl> k
<asuni> don't know exactly ur trading method emini, but i'm sure u use a lot of discretion to identify best trades09:51
<eminitrader> but price action takes precedence over this jper --if in conflict

true asuni...like in this mrkt i have been ignoring all sell signals...method says so ...but have enough experience to say no09:52

tried reducing size like niha says...but the risk/reward ratio is just not worth it...09:53
<ItalianSharp> under current market conditions, i think i have some time to carry on yesterday's interesting discussion started by les with the contribution of emini
<asuni> y, emini..... sincerely, i don't know anyone who can have consistency in gains simply with an "automated" system
<ItalianSharp> i am just gonna post my thoughts and experience as you guys trade/watch markets, dont need to read this now09:54
<eminitrader> again it depends on the individual asuni...cause a lot of trades wld say...dont ignore ur set=ups..to be consistant u have to take all ur signals..even in trading in the zone09:55
<asuni> but markets change, and u need to arrange ur system, imho09:56
<eminitrader> bingo
<asuni> and this means a lot of EXPERIENCE
<jperl> TotalMarket somewhat mixed this morning....

http://charts.dacharts.com/2006-10-13/JP ERL_013.png09:57
<ItalianSharp> first off, les pointed out many important factors that can deteriorate a trader's confidence...like overanalysing losers instead of moving on to the next trades...
<ItalianSharp> what i would like to focus on is a more practical problem that almost all traders face when they start off: money09:58
<eminitrader> if u have this pb...dont eevn START trading
<asuni> agree emini09:59
<ItalianSharp> usually, the generally accepted path to become a trader is to have enough savings to survive at least one year
<eminitrader> solves all other pbs :)
<szubaark>  Exited all Long NQ at 1733.25 --> + 0.25 paper
<eminitrader> no seriously ..if money is a pb even before u start trading...
<ItalianSharp> during that year, you have to become good enough to make a living off trading

emini, i am focusing on money not as a problem but as a dominant factor in trading10:00

or at least, in the majority of traders
<eminitrader> k IS
<ItalianSharp> wannabe traders to be correct

basically, a wannabe trader that's done all necessary homework has enough savings to survive for 1 year, decent capital to start trading, and a strategy/system that supposedly should be making money10:02

usually, most traders that start off are UNDERCAPITALIZED
<eminitrader> true10:03
<ItalianSharp> they open $5,000 accounts with the belief to make a living out of it

this is totally understandable

if you dont know whether you are good at trading, why risk more than a small amount of cash?10:04

the problem with this is:

when you put $5,000 on the line as your trading capital and have enough money to survive for 1 year, its hard to have a sense of urgency10:05

first of all, because you have enough saved money to afford to not be productive for 12 months and still survive
<szubaark> why do u think they created emini contracts? to suck in more public with $5k accounts10:06
<ItalianSharp> second of all, because $5,000 is perceived more as gamble money rather than a real trading capital....i started a $10,000 FOREX account myself...and the crap i was telling myself when i began was: "give it a shot, if it works out it'll work out wiht a lot more money"10:07
<pdays>  Long YM @ 11976
<ItalianSharp> the result was: i lost 30% of my capital in the fist month of trading

nothing new i believe
<eminitrader> u did good :)10:08
<ItalianSharp> eheeh...yes indeed...
<eminitrader> just 30% in the first month
<ItalianSharp> the thing is: i started off risking 3% per trade
<szubaark> Forex is a really viscious "market".. at least in futures u have some repeatable patterns where forex is just all random
<ItalianSharp> utterly unaware of losing streaks, drawdowns, etc...
<pdays>  exit stop set YM @ 11970 10:09
<ItalianSharp> well, guess what? i lost somehting like 11 of my first 15 trades

something tough to deal with when you have lots of expectations from your new career

however, i reacted fine
<jazz1> gm
<eminitrader>  Long ES @ 1368.25 10:10
<WannaBeBOS> hey dan
<jazz1> hi mike
<eminitrader> stop 2 ticks
<szubaark>  Buys NQ @ 1734 paper
<ItalianSharp> i stepped back...suspended trading for 1 week...focused on what went wrong...and here is the connection with les' lecture from yesterday...i started to focus on the negative things and overanalyse things and whys etc...
given that i couldnt figure out why i lost 11 of 15 trades, i decided to resume trading regardless and reduce my risk % to 1% per trade...10:11
that decision stopped the bleeding
and kept my capital sort of intact, avoiding me further drawdowns
<les>  Long ER2 @ 764.5 10:12
<jperl> TotalMarkets becoming more mixed....
http://charts.dacharts.com/2006-10-13/JP ERL_014.png
longs becareful
<ItalianSharp> i also limited the frequency of my trades, only took what i considered high prob. trades...that helped as well...10:13
<jperl> two good points Italian10:14
<ItalianSharp> after 6 months of trading, i managed to consistently break even...which was a first little success for me...but not enough to make a living i guess....

by the way, i used to have a joint account with another trader and we would operate togehter....something i absolutely advise against10:15

trading is a very individualistic activity

there cant be 2 minds agreeing on the same things over and over and over...
<les>  Exited 1/2 ER2 Long @ 765 --> + 0.5
<ItalianSharp> however, after breaking even for a couple of months, i decided that the trading system i had created busting my ass for hrs, days and months was total garbage10:16

i became aware that i had no EDGE

by the way, my system was based on a couple of MA's and CCI (not woodies)10:17
<WannaBeBOS> so what did you do?
<pdays>  exit stop moved to breakeven YM @ 11976
<ItalianSharp> no price action whatsoever
meaning that...10:18
<les>  Exited Remainder ER2 Long @ 764.5 --> 0
<ItalianSharp> i would take a long trade after a market rise and 10 consecutive doji or shooting stars had appeared...i'd still take the long...or i wouldnt exit a short position when candlesticks were screaming at me " we have reached the bottom, time to either reverse or trade out!!!"10:19
at that point, i figured i needed to learn more about price action...also because one of few traders i came across in my life had once told me: why bother with all the TA? just look at prices...didnt really know what he meant back then, i do know now10:20
i started to build some candlestick analysis basics via Nyson's books10:21
of course, i came across niha at elite forum, reading all his interesting stuff about hammers...
<WannaBeBOS> he is the candle master10:22
<ItalianSharp> i decided to introduce candlestick analysis to my system...use it as a filter...
and things started to look better...but not good enough yet...
<pdays>  Exited all YM Long @ 11977 --> + 1

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As traders we must treat our trading like a business if we are to succeed as traders and as a business. Therefore, waiting till the last few weeks March to prepare for April's taxes is not good for your trading and could put extra stress on your trading during tax month or the months that follow if your one of those traders that filed an extension.. Therefore, its best to be on top of your taxes throughout the year and Traders Accounting is a great resource for such especially if you want to prevent penalties or an audit several years from now.
<ItalianSharp> the problem was: i found it hard to get rid of my old junk...CCI, MA, and all that...although i knew it was totally worthless...i guess my psyche felt reassured using all that stuff...this is why10:23
<les> hehe - the guy that mentored me..

never uses indicators10:24

only price

does all his stuff using the oldest TA method in the book...

Point & Figure

nothing else
<ItalianSharp> it was back in july that i said to myself: you have 6months of savings left in your bank account, you are not producing shit right now, you are failing to reach your objective...either you turn this shit around or very soon you'll have to go back to work and do all things you hate...10:25
i believe that day i touched the bottom
<les> like em's crisi point ?

<ItalianSharp> sort of
it was emotionally distressing to admit that i was failing10:26
but it was the truth
and it was even more distressing to admit that all work i had done until then was total rubbish
that hurt, but i had to admit that loud to myself
<les> i lost count of how many times i had to say that to myself10:27
<szubaark> in trading, just because you work hard doesnt mean you gonna be successful.
<ItalianSharp> yep

this is why its a tough job
<eminitrader> how very true
<ItalianSharp> we are used to be rewarded for our efforts

doesnt happen with trading
<eminitrader> :)
<szubaark> trading,like poker etc attracts the sharpest minds in the world, thats why its So Hard.10:28
<ItalianSharp> anyway, i felt that i needed a change...i needed help from someone successful and more experienced...i alone wasnt able to turn things around
<les> i beleive trading is much much harder than gambling
<eminitrader>  Exited 1/3 ES Long @ 1369.25 --> + 1 10:29
<ItalianSharp> this is when i purchased the STR and started to get in tocuh with niha on a daily basis
<asuni> les, who play poker for aliving is not a gambler
is a professionist
<les> yes
<asuni> EXACTLY as in trading
<les> and their attitudes to their game is a lot like a good trader's
<asuni> if u read some good books about texas hold'em, it seems u are reading books about trading10:30
obviously, good books :-)
<ItalianSharp> now, i am not here to promote nihaba's material...i guess everyone knows the validity and quality of his research...

however, niha is the person that unconsciously helped the most...10:31

i had been in touch with niha since early in the year...

hes one of the sharpest minds i came across thus far when it comes down to trading

and the material in the STR does give you an edge...however, i believe the real edge for me is the combination of that material and what i was looking for10:32

i feel perfectly tuned in with this type of trading10:33

price action alone

naked trading

call it the way you want
<eminitrader> lol
<ItalianSharp> i wouldnt put a MA on my chart now even if i got payed

i am only focused on prices10:34
<jperl> keep in mind there are a number of price action alone methods of trading
<ItalianSharp> something i need to say here now:

by watching niha trade in this room, i believe 70% of his trades and profit didnt come from the STR strategies...hes been doing lots of intuition trades lately, mostly due to the fact august and september are months that dont fall into his seasonal patterns10:35

what i am trying to say is:
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for realtime trade posting by traders of Emini Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, QQQQ, SPY)10:36
<ItalianSharp> the STR is excellent material, like many other strategies i guess...however, its the trader that uses them that makes em work

its like giving someone a FERRARI: not everybody can drive it and most would crush themselves in the attempt to drive it
<szubaark> i feel u need 2-3 years experience before reading Nihas stuff otherwise a newbie will get overwhelmed.10:37
<eminitrader>  exit stop raised ES @ 1368

one tick stop now
<szubaark>  Exited all Long NQ at 1736.25 --> + 2.25 paper
<ItalianSharp> szu, there is no preset amount of time i believe...its up to you and only you...something i learned is that trading must be fun, you have to enjoy what you do, and the trading style you choose must be a reflection of your personality10:38
<pat255> k guys biab...@office ty all..
<ItalianSharp> trading is very psychological

and you need to put yourself in the best psychological conditions to perform well10:39
<szubaark> Italian..trading used to be a lot of fun back during Internet bubble..now its just So Competative
<eminitrader> later pat
<pat255> later emini
<szubaark> Now its Pro against Pro. The amateur just gets wasted
<ItalianSharp> i dont agree...i am sure emini, niha and all successful traders are having fun nowadays as well
as long as you are successful, you enjoy it10:40
if you mean trading used to be easier a few years ago, you might be right...
<eminitrader> hit the nail on the head IS
<ItalianSharp> but its how we react to challenges that makes us successful
<eminitrader> its tough to enjoying anything when on the losing end10:41
<ItalianSharp> exactly
<eminitrader>  Exited 1/3 ES Long @ 1370.25 --> + 2 10:43

looks like my last trade of the day / week

exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1368.25
<ItalianSharp> on a more practical note, we wannabe traders need to start enjoying victory, success and take enjoyment off trading...as long as you dont know how it feels to be successful, you'll never be successful10:44
i used to be a pro athlete, and there was this one year when my team started 0-6...we wouldnt win a damned game...10:45
we knew we were good, but we jsut wouldnt win
as soon as we won one game, we went on to finish with a 20-10 record
pretty good turnaround10:46
success was in our minds, we only needed to smell it and taste it
so is trading i believe...success is within ourselves
we just have to decide to be successfull
and stop flirting with success10:47
just grab success
<WannaBeBOS> what did you play?

sport i mean
<ItalianSharp> soccer
<WannaBeBOS> kool
<ItalianSharp> yeah, love it
i will be going live in 2 weeks, and be posting my trades in this room as soon as i am live and as soon as i learn how to post them...lol...10:48
something i am going to do to help myself become successfull is set small goals at the beginning10:49
i need to feel successfull if i want to be very successfull...if you always feel like a loser, you'll always be a loser
so i am going to set reachable goals for each week, month...and get used to reaching those goals on a consistent basis10:50
<eminitrader> good for you IS
<ItalianSharp> then increase those goals until i reach a level of profit i am satisfied with...10:51
my objective number one is to become successfull...no matter how much money i make each week, i need to make money period...this is my job if i want to be a trader and i cant hyde away from it10:52
so basically, if my weekly objective is to make $250 per week, and i have reached that by wednesday, thu and fri i will be in a very conservative mode to protect my winnings10:53
i know many of you might be thinking: you could be missing opportunities to make more
<WannaBeBOS> personally, i wouldnt do that
<ItalianSharp> true
but what i am talking about is: get used to be a winner first
then you can afford to be more greedy10:54
being successful builds your confidence
and trading is all about confidence
<eminitrader> thats what i did and do even now IS
<ItalianSharp> really? glad to hear that
there is this one trader i met here in italy...10:55
he used to be a salesman...
into the marble business i am not mistaken...
i visited his house twice last year...
<eminitrader> if on a consistent basis i see that i have reached my weekly targets before the time alloted...i then increase my target/objective to higher level...
<ItalianSharp> yeah, smart thing EM10:56
this trader told me his story
he used to daytrade the afterhour markets...lost $50,000 in 6months
decided to buy professional education10:57
attended one of Joe Ross' seminars
not enough
he hired Joe Ross for a weekend
<eminitrader> wow
<ItalianSharp> spent 20 hrs with Joe Ross
also spent $10,000 or more i believe
i read the material Joe Ross taught him10:58
very basic stuff...general market education, 1-2-3 high/low, Ross Hook, a little bit of insider trading information like stop hunting and stuff...all information most of us are acquainted with10:59
that was enough to turn things around for this guy
hes now a professional trader making well above $150K per year
<eminitrader> was it more meetnig joe or was it his mthods
<ItalianSharp> what i truly learned from this guy us
gimme a sec emini,need to provide you with more info first11:00
<eminitrader> pardone
<ItalianSharp> np
this guy is not very well educated...he makes several errors with his grammar...hes not very well polished...11:01
i dont even think hes that bright...
hes a salesman
a hell of a salesma
he thinks in terms of supply and demand11:02
<eminitrader> :))
<ItalianSharp> this guy once told me: you must picture yourself as if you were in a real market, like the fish market...
forget about the computer
you are inside a real market here
with lots of bastards who wanna fuck you out of money11:03
<szubaark>  :)
<eminitrader> he hehe
<ItalianSharp> in fact, its fun watching him trade

he opens a position...doesnt go his way or sees something that smells fishy after 10 secs...trades out11:04
<eminitrader> he trades forex ?
<ItalianSharp> no


and swing trade stocks
<eminitrader> k
<ItalianSharp> basically

this guy is successfull simply because he already had the sales instinct developed by his job combined with basic education provided by Joe Ross11:05

a few tricks he plays from his old sales job:11:06

if you have 3 losers in a row, call it a day...he used to use the same trick while selling marble...if he had 3 consecutive appointments that didnt turn into a sale, he'd call it a day

he claims it was too frustrating to go to the fourth appointmnet and still be positive11:07

he wouldnt be as persuavive

he needed time off

to regroup his energy
<eminitrader> very nice comparision
<ItalianSharp> another trick he uses: if you reach twice your average daily gain, call it a day...chances are you goin to give something back because markets close11:08

very simple stuff, but very effective

all this stuff is made to protect capital11:09

and this guy follows this simple rules religiously

hes like a machine...he doesnt even think of stuff, he just executes
<eminitrader> IS its ok to take a break.......mmmmean from all the typing..........11:10
<ItalianSharp> eheheh...
<eminitrader> just kidding :)
<szubaark> jperl how is your trading this morning?
<jperl> only 1 be trade so far11:11
<ItalianSharp> i know i have been long telling all these stories, i just think there is so much we can learn from each other besides trading stuff...11:12

for instance...there is this other guy i know...former JP MORGAN FOREX trader..

he joined JP MORGAN right after college back in the good old days...was professionally trained and brainwashed...and spent 12 years trading forex....11:13

made lots of cash...yearly bonuses between $700K and $1M


anyway, hes now working for a hedge fund11:14

i talked to him last year before i started trading...after a good 10 min chat about tech stuff, he said to me: "ok, you have enough basic knowledge of the markets to make money...now stop reading TA books and focus on psychology...remember: psyche and capital are the 2 things you need to protect if you wanna be around long term"11:15

time for a real break now....my fingertips are worn out, can no longer read the letters on the keyboard...lol11:16
<szubaark> good stuff italian.. thx for sharing11:17
<jperl> Here are some price action only trading methods that I know of....11:20

a)Tape reading....the oldest in the book

b)various types of chart types.....you name them11:21

c)chart patterns.....head and shoulders,triangles,etc

d)statistical price distribution charts and patterns11:22

Any others you know?11:23
<PapaJon> i use suctioncup darts on my monitor11:26
<eminitrader> tgx for the details IS
<PapaJon> yes.. good stuff IS
<eminitrader> whats that for pj11:27
<PapaJon> hehe.. to pick direction
u know.. like a dart board??
<eminitrader> lol u got me there :)
<PapaJon> lol
<ItalianSharp> you are welcome fellas11:28
<eminitrader> jper1 ...ur stuff looks way complicated ...i prefer pj's lol
<PapaJon> hehe11:29
<jperl> I use statistical distribution stuff as you know...nothing else
<eminitrader> in the money yet pj ...

just kidding here guys
<les>  Long ER2 @ 765.2 11:30
<eminitrader> nned to have a sense of humor ..once in a while
<PapaJon> yes.. humor is vital to ones survival
physical survival
let alone trading survival
<eminitrader> and mental too11:31
<szubaark>  Buys NQ @ 1734 paper
<eminitrader> ES came within 1 tick to my stop ...11:33
<szubaark> ES probobly not going higher til bust stops lower11:34
<eminitrader> hope not ..11:36

if it breaks now...doubt if it will retest current highs today11:37

mean if it breaks today's lows...t11:38
<szubaark> u would expect some profit taking for end of week..probobly thats why so choppy.. big boys scaling out of their Longs
<les> in that case szu...11:39

they bin doin that all week

<szubaark> look at dow Slowly dripping down, must be Longs exiting11:40
<eminitrader> yes szu ..and lots of stops will be triggered...expect the momemtum players to pile up trying to fill yest gap
<szubaark>  exit stop set NQ @ 1734.25 paper 11:44
keeping this tight here
<eminitrader> right think to do szu11:45
<szubaark> something Niha suggested i keep trailing my Stops to Stop the bleeding.. either goes OR GET OUT
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for realtime trade posting by traders of Emini Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, QQQQ, SPY)11:48
<szubaark> Fine.. they want to keep it tight, they losing me as a custumer
<les>  Exited 1/3 ER2 Long @ 765.7 --> + 0.5
<eminitrader> :)
<szubaark> i need to start thinking like a Pro, not like Joe Schmuck
<eminitrader>  Exited 1/3 ES Long @ 1370.25 --> + 2 11:51
now holding 1
cant read the flow :((
<szubaark> nice emini11:52
<eminitrader> thx szu..taking what i can get
<les>  Exited Remainder ER2 Long @ 766 --> + 0.8
<szubaark>  Exited all Long NQ at 1736 --> + 2 paper 11:54
have to leave...
* szubaark is now known as szubaark_away
<jperl> Not much action for me this morning.....
http://charts.dacharts.com/2006-10-13/JP ERL_016.png
<les>  Shorts ER2 @ 765.7 11:58

Covered 1/2 ER2 Short @ 765.2 --> + 0.5 12:06
<szubaark_away> YM,ER testing highs here12:50
* szubaark_away is now known as szubaark12:51
<szubaark>  Shorts NQ @ 1738.75 paper 12:52
Stop is break of YM,ER highs12:53
Covered all Short NQ at 1740.50 --> - 1.75 paper 12:55
Buys NQ @ 1740 paper
sucker feels strong again
<eminitrader> :)12:56
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for realtime trade posting by traders of Emini Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, QQQQ, SPY)12:57
<szubaark> crap..i might have to sit thru this pullback13:05
<les> oops13:08
forgot to post my exit earlier..
Covered Remainder ER2 Short @ 765.7 --> 0
<jperl> thought you may have fallen asleep
<les> :)13:09
<szubaark> les how is your week overall?
<les> about even
Shorts ER2 @ 767.1 13:10
realised i hadnt posted exit when i entered this one
Covered 1/2 ER2 Short @ 766.6 --> + 0.5 13:11
szu - the indiscipline deom visisted me for 2 days
spent the rest of time trying to get back
despite all the psychological changes i've had recently..
i find one can still slip up
and it costs just as much as before
i dont feel at all upset about it13:13
i think cos i know what to do to get back
what attitiudes to have etc
asctually that lil demon paid me another vsist near the open today
oh boy, whatta ride this is13:14
<szubaark> yup.. this is toughest Gig one can have
<les> i think i enjoy the psychological challenge more than the trading at times
szu for a guy like me - my profession i mean...13:15
the psychological challenge is like a mental gift
chance to hone my stuff etc
so far the money loss is not an issue in the same way as for some others13:16
i have a job and a private practice.
the private practice funds my trading, incl the losses
<jperl> so you have a safety net
<les> so thats not a motivator for me
<jperl> that helps a lot with the motivation and attitude13:18
<les> yes
i dpnt like losing, but thats more to do with the problem of the challenge, not money
<jperl> I've chatted with too many people on these sites for whom trading had become a do or die issue....13:19

I feel sorry for them
<les> what dya mean "do or die"?
<jperl> They either have to make it trading or they will be completely lost financially
<les> how about personally?13:20
like if they fail its a personal failure etc
<szubaark> yes.. there was a few guys here in #futurestrades who got laid off and had 1 year to make while they were on unemployment!
<jperl> Well that often comes out too
<les> to me the idea u can learnn this with a fixed time limit is a lotta crap13:21

esp such a narrow one
<jperl> How do you trade less and still have time for a job
<les> its gonna take as long as it takes for one to learn what to do and waht to not do etce etc

my job is half time13:22
<jperl> I started trading futures while I was working.....
discovered I couldn't do both....
quit the trading...
<les> its not the same for me13:23

<jperl> until I could come back to it at a later date
<les> i live in uk

so i have my job in the am..

trade from the mkt open, which is 2-30pm here

see private clients in between or w/ends
<jperl> k13:25
<szubaark>  exit stop set NQ @ 1740.25 paper 13:28

need YM to bust thru here13:29
<les> jeez, i done it again...13:30
Covered all ER2 Short @ 767.5 --> - 0.4
minds on other stuff right now
i think its time to stop
<eminitrader>  Exited Remainder ES Long @ 1373.25 --> + 5 13:35

done guys ...see u all next week
<szubaark> bye emini13:36
<ItalianSharp> bye emini
<eminitrader> bye szu
and IS
<szubaark>  Exited all Long NQ at 1743 --> + 3 paper 13:38
<les> cya all monday13:45
go time for me now
<szubaark> bye
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for realtime trade posting by traders of Emini Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, QQQQ, SPY)14:09
<jperl> I'm done for the day.....here are todays trades for ER2....14:41

http://charts.dacharts.com/2006-10-13/JP ERL_017.png

have a good weekend all
<szubaark> ++14:42
<Chilly> gotta go too, c ya folks
<szubaark>  Buys NQ @ 1738 paper 14:46
Exited all Long NQ at 1736.25 --> - 1.75 paper 14:58
Shorts NQ @ 1736.25 paper
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for realtime trade posting by traders of Emini Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, QQQQ, SPY)15:21
<szubaark>  Covered all Short NQ at 1740.25 --> - 4 paper 15:26
Buys NQ @ 1740.25 paper
Exited all Long NQ at 1739.75 --> - 0.5 paper 16:04
stupid 3 last trades on Impulse
<codehead> whew what a mkt16:15
<szubaark> code.. so much for ghosts and zrls heheh
not a single good lucking one..all crap, no wonder woodies room is getting smaller
<codehead> lol

i took a ghost short on ER when i first got on--realized it was a bit of a late entry and took 2 ticks right off16:16
<szubaark> with almost no pullbacks.. therw as NO ZERO LINEs..just CCI hoovering around the 100 all day heheh
<codehead> then it did a gb-100 long and that was an excellent move, but i didn't take it

earlier there were patterns16:17

but then it turned into a situation where the dips came on no patterns, and hammered right back up

on price trend, that third touch of the attempt on a downtrend line on dow--right there i told friend, "if this pushes right now, shorts are screwed"16:18

nothing but up from there16:19

i only traded one ER and one YM today, both small winners, was too busy in stocks16:20
<NihabaAshi_away> Take care all and have a nice weekend.
<codehead> big day for me in stocks--awesome to be long here
<szubaark> bye niha
<codehead> k, cya niha
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> Chat room for realtime trade posting by traders of Emini Futures (ER2, ES, NQ, YM), EuroFX Futures (EC), Eurex Derivatives (DAX, ESTX50), Euronext Futures (FTSE100, CAC40), Treasury Futures (ZF, ZN, ZB), NYMEX Futures (CL, NG, HO, QM) and Exchange Traded Funds (DIA, GLD, IWM, OIH, QQQQ, SPY)16:33
* DisconnectedSession Close: Fri Oct 13 16:34:25 200616:34



Mentally getting away from trading is much harder to do in comparison to physically getting away from trading when its time for some rest and relaxation. Personally, one of my favorite ways to mentally rest is to watch movies I've copy & recorded from the local video store via my Slysoft software that copies any copyright protected dvd's and cd's.
   Slysoft - Copy and DVD or CD

Think Geek


I don't always trade nor monitor the market from my home office. Sometimes I'll do such from one of my favorite nearby Wi-Fi hotspot or whenever I'm traveling via using this little Wi-Fi detection gadget I got from Think Geek that will show more than just the presence of any nearby signal and its signal strength. It has a 12-character LCD that provides information on signal availability and strength as well as essential network information, including SSID, security status and channel. When multiple networks are present the LCD me to scroll through information for each network.



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In addition, below are the trading instruments our chat room members monitor closely to make trade decisions:  

CME Emini Futures ES, NQ and ER2 

CBOT mini-sized Dow Futures YM

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Last of all, if you have any questions about either #EminiFutures general market chat room, #FuturesTrades realtime trade posting room or the two realtime strategy discussion rooms used by traders with access to our fee-based strategies called #TheStrategyLab and #SwingTradingTSL...

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