Session Start: Mon Jul 25 09:03:16 2005Session Ident: #FuturesTrades
* Now talking in #FuturesTrades09:03
<X> [NihabaAshi] Password, trade post script, trader profiles and trade journals are posted ONLY at the discussion forum at http://p207.ezboard.com/bthestrategylab
<FFT> Come on ES, let's go take a swing at 39 so I can short.09:31
<PapaJon> gm all09:33
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1227.5

Covered all ES Short @ 1237.5 --> - 10 09:37

+0
<NihabaAshi>  Long YM @ 10678.00 -> small size 09:38
<patr82>  Long ES @ 1236.50 09:41

sorry, little late posting. so much to take care of at the open
<FFT> Looks like a typical range opening09:43
<NihabaAshi>  Covered YM Short @ 10670 --> + 8 09:44

 Reverse and Enter Long YM @ 10670

Ooops...09:45

will repost

 Exited all YM Long @ 10670 --> 0 09:46

Reposting now...

 Long YM @ 10678.00 -> small size 09:47
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1236.75
<NihabaAshi>  Exited YM Long @ 10670.00 --> - 8

Reverse and Enter Short YM @ 10670.00
<patr82>  Long ES @ 1236.50 09:48
another buy signal, so two of my 5 signals are long09:49
<mispe>  Shorts YM @ 10674

Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10668 --> + 6 09:50

 Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10667 --> + 7 09:52
<patr82> at 9am, im going to have a third signal that activates. don't know if its a buy or sell09:54
<FFT>  Covered all ES Short @ 1236.5 --> + 0.25 09:59

Now we break down? :P
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.10:00
<NihabaAshi>  Covered all YM Short @ 10669.00 --> + 1

:(
<FFT> Tough opening :(10:02
<NihabaAshi> Yep and as expected...the 10am est report wasn't going to make things better.
<mispe> strong existing home sales
<szubaark>  Shorts YM @ 10663
<FFT> Good news? Down we go ;)10:03
<mispe>  Shorts YM @ 10663
<FFT>  Long ES @ 1235.5 10:06
<mispe>  Covered all YM Short @ 10660 --> + 3 10:07
<FFT> Man this low vol days are nasty :(10:09
<mispe>  Long YM @ 10658 10:10
<NihabaAshi> It's been awhile since I've seen a first 30mins of trading volatility like this :(
<szubaark>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10660 --> + 3 10:11

yeah.. thats why im taking frikin 3 points
<tSOB>  Shorts ER2 @ 677.6
<mispe>  Exited all YM Long @ 10660 --> + 2 10:16
<FFT>  Exited all ES Long @ 1236.25 --> + 0.75 10:17
<mispe>  Shorts YM @ 10665 10:18
<FFT> SMH busting up to the HOD10:19
<mispe>  Covered all YM Short @ 10663 --> + 2

my broker is rich
<FFT> ER2 going to town, wow.
SMH at HOD10:20
<diego12> Buy ES 1236.25
<tSOB>  Covered ER2 Short @ 678.4 --> - 0.8 10:21
<diego12> cover 1/210:23
<FFT> Getting a weak short, but I don't like this trade
Shorts ES @ 1237.25 10:24
<mispe>  Shorts YM @ 10674 10:28
<FFT> Die already!
<diego12> exit all10:30
<danshirley>  Shorts YM @ 10670 «« paper »» 10:31
<FFT>  Covered all ES Short @ 1237.25 --> 0
<danshirley> programmed short
<mispe>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10666 --> + 8
<tSOB>  Long ER2 @ 679.8 10:33
<mispe>  Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10669 --> + 5 10:34
<FFT> Can you stand the exictement today? ;)10:37
LOL, my broker's getting a third of my profits so far. Sheesh.10:41
<NihabaAshi>  Long YM @ 10675.00 -> large size
<danshirley>  Covered all YM Short @ 10679 --> - 9 «« paper »» 10:42
<NihabaAshi>  Long YM @ 10682.0 -> Add

Exited 1/3 YM Long @ 10692.00 --> + 10 10:46

Got some lucky (extra) points out of that ADD.
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1240
<mispe>  Shorts YM @ 10691 10:47
<patr82>  Exited 1/2 ES Long @ 1239.50 --> + 3
<NihabaAshi>  exit stop raised YM @ 10676.00
<mispe>  Covered all YM Short @ 10696 --> - 5 10:48
Shorts YM @ 10692 10:52
Covered all YM Short @ 10687 --> + 5 10:54
<NihabaAshi> :(

Volatility is the pits today and it started right out of the gate as bad :(10:55
<cL2z>  buy limit to enter long NQ @ 1613 10:59
* cL2z is now known as coolweb
<NihabaAshi> If I'm lucky...I may just get an ADD signal soon.11:00
<coolweb> nihaba: heheh man I thought todays volatility was pretty wild, you must like the crazzzzy rides :D11:01
<NihabaAshi> I measure volatility by WRB's and the current interval I'm looking at...its below its average for the past 20 days.11:02
Not good trading conditions for me.
* lesAway is now known as les11:03
<mispe> is it something like the Average true range ?
<patr82>  exit stop moved to breakeven ES @ 1238.00 11:05
<NihabaAshi> Well...not really.
Exited Remainder YM Long @ 10679.00 --> + 4
mispe...its fairly simple...11:06
<mispe> yes
<coolweb>  Exited all NQ Long @ 1612 --> - 1
<NihabaAshi> Lets say there's been 5 WRB's in the first 2 hours of trading for whatever number you like (I like past 20 trading days).
* FFT_Real exits 1/2 at 39 +111:07
<FFT_Real> Heck of a place for a spontaneous reboot :(
<NihabaAshi> Then if today so far is 2 WRB's...then I'm below the average and it usually ( most of the time) will show low volatile trading ranges or choppy environmen.
It helps to tell me when I should be "aggressive" or "conservative" in my trades.11:08
<tSOB>  Exited ER2 Long @ 680.9 --> + 1.1 11:09
<coolweb> I see
Nihaba: what is WRB?
<NihabaAshi> Wide range body.

There's another term for it...like "expansion bar".11:10
<coolweb> ohhh
big bar
:D
<mispe>  Long YM @ 10674
<NihabaAshi> Yep...big bar....but a very special big bar.
<coolweb> big bar with high volume?

big bar with ears?11:11

:D
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.11:12
<mispe>  Exited 1/2 YM Long @ 10679 --> + 5
<NihabaAshi> I had a late entry and should have been in at 10667.00
* FFT_Real is now known as FFT
<coolweb> nihaba: so the more big bars you see, the more aggressive in the direction11:13
the market is
<NihabaAshi> Chased it by 8 ticks (lost my wiggle room) to stay in the trade.

Yes...your on the right track.
<coolweb> same here, well I entered a reversal dip trade, I Think I'm going to stop doing that NQ 1613
i think the odds are not on my side when I have a 2 tick stop limit, + going against the trend11:14
<NihabaAshi> It's not so much the right direction nor trying to pick a direction.

It's more about having enough "volatility" to substain me staying in a good trade through several profit targets (beyond pt1).
<coolweb> I see11:15
yep very reasonable
<NihabaAshi> Thus, my goal is never to try and get a big trade every trade.
<coolweb> not enough push, can't even reach your target #1
<NihabaAshi> It's to get a few big trades per month and the rest just small winners.
<coolweb> I like that much
steady eddie11:16
<mispe>  Exited Remainder YM Long @ 10680 --> + 6
<coolweb> is the way to go, I agree
<NihabaAshi> Bingo...take whatever I can get eventhough the goal before entry is to hope its the only trade I have to do all day.
<coolweb> nihaba: you calculate big bars through 15 min graphs right?11:17
<NihabaAshi> No...I calculate them through any chart interval...

2min, 3min, 5min, 15min, 60min or daily.

My favorite intervals.
<coolweb> you must be sweating with all 10 monitors around you :D11:18
<NihabaAshi> 3 monitors11:19

Don't need to look at all the intervals at the same time...
<coolweb> I like your WRB explanation, very conclusive
<NihabaAshi> Just the interval I just happen to think a trade signal may appear.11:20
<coolweb> nihaba, why do you call it volatility (WRB)?11:21
when you say volaltity, I usually think you are meaning like big whipsaws
like boom here, boom there, all over the place
wouldn't a better would be aggressiveness?11:22
word
<NihabaAshi> Whipsaws is another form of volatility but not the one I'm interested in because it contains a lot of "noise".
<coolweb> I see11:23
* FFT exits remainder @ 1239.25 +.75
<coolweb> i was doing some stats this weekend nihaba11:24
trend reversals don't work well with 2-3-4 tick stops, but I think you already knew that
but I found that very interesting in the statistics.
very very interesting.11:25
<NihabaAshi> Now you know why I'm an advocate of not using "fixed" number stops.
<coolweb> had like a 40-50-60% success rate
<NihabaAshi> Stops should be based upon current market conditions...not some fixed ratio.
<coolweb> Nihaba: oh yeah , I totally understand that, I usually put it below a 50 ma, but I limit the price for my entry for lets say a 2 tick stop only
<NihabaAshi> And if the current market condition tells me its a stop too big for my taste...I don't take the trade.11:26
<coolweb> I agree, yes
nihaba: I read one of your post11:28
back in 2004
gave me good insight :D
<danshirley>  Shorts YM @ 10672 «« paper »»
<NihabaAshi> Post about what ?
<coolweb> I think you were decipherings someones chart

you were talking about11:29
<NihabaAshi> Ahh ok...I do that once in awhile.11:30
<coolweb> watching volume when price reverses, see if its concolusive, and pointing out to the ET user that if he looked at the 1 min chart, he would have seen volume decreased staging for a reversal if not a stop in drop

tape reading, so I'm drawing trendlines on my volume now

well just diagonal ones, its telling me mor about the aggressive nature

of moves11:31

like I think lots of big players won't do a aggressive market order until they see current volume is higher then previous volume espically at later stages of the rise

so I watch that too now, seems quite reasonable I must say11:32

good forum, I think people like you make the forum a very valuable resource :D11:33

learn a lot from there

funny, I was thinking of backtesting statistics, don't know how to code much, but I think I will hire from india to backtest manually11:35

was pretty insightful to find out some of the statistics my plays were having

I was doing 1 day manual took me like 3 hours on a 15 minute chart!
<danshirley>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10665 --> + 7 «« paper »»
<TLTrader>  Shorts YM @ 10667 «« Scalp »» 11:36
<coolweb> funny thing was11:37
<patr82>  Exited Remainder ES Long @ 1238.00 --> + 1.5 11:38

 sell stop to enter short ES @ 1236.50 11:40
<danshirley>  exit stop moved to breakeven YM @ 10672 «« paper »» 11:41
* danshirley is now known as dan-away11:42
<coolweb> o11:44
i'm going to open another IB account $3k
<szubaark> so Niha today on 5min YM WRB so far today was candle@10:45?11:45
<coolweb> need another FREE market feed for my laptop, + ninjatrader only works with IB , want to test it out
<TLTrader>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10666 --> + 1 «« Scalp »»
<szubaark>  Long YM @ 10668
<coolweb> find it a good deal considering market feed data from prophet.net is $70 mininum for eminis/realtime , esiginal $100+11:46

szubaark: what interface do you use right now?
<TLTrader>  Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10666 --> + 1 «« Scalp »» 11:47
<coolweb> I use TWS , looking for something a little more automated for my stops
<szubaark> same TWS
<coolweb> szbuaark: you use Quotetracker?11:48

what charts do you use? I hope not IB's charts
<szubaark> lol! I use Tradestation11:49
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1238

SMH breaking down nicely
<coolweb> shorting under 2174 here
szubaark: so you have a system then?11:50
answer when you have time btw, I'm just chatting cause no signals here11:51
<dan-away> these conversations belong in the other room

hard to follow trades

:-)
<coolweb> ok got it :D11:52
<szubaark>  Exited all YM Long @ 10654 --> - 14

i do but it sucks :)
<coolweb> szubaark: heres a big tip to avoid that previous long you did, check the 15 min chart, it doesn't confirm with a long right now, short only11:53
<patr82>  Shorts ES @ 1236.50
<FFT>  Covered all ES Short @ 1237.75 --> + 0.25 11:56
<coolweb> A smart wallstreet gyy quote I read "you know how I became rich? I sell too early and never buy on the bottom"11:58
<mispe>  Long YM @ 10665
<pdays>  Long YM @ 10663 «« paper »» 12:01
<NihabaAshi>  Long YM @ 10665.00 -> large size 12:04
<TLTrader> back later12:06
<les>  Shorts ER2 @ 679.8 «« paper »» 12:13
<tSOB>  Long ER2 @ 680.1 12:14
<dan-away>  Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10662 --> + 10 «« paper »» 12:16
<les>  Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 679.2 --> + 0.6 «« paper »» 12:18
<tSOB>  Exited ER2 Long @ 679.3 --> - 0.8 12:19
<les>  exit stop lowered ER2 @ 679.6 «« paper »»
<FFT>  Long ES @ 1237 12:20
<les>  Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 678.5 --> + 1.3 «« paper »» 12:22

 exit stop lowered ER2 @ 679.2 «« paper »»

Covered remainder Short ER2 at 677.9 --> + 1.9 «« paper »» 12:23
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.12:24
<mispe>  Exited all YM Long @ 10655 --> - 10
<les> back later12:25
* les is now known as lesAway
<tSOB>  Shorts ER2 @ 677.7
<szubaark>  Shorts YM @ 10650
<NihabaAshi>  Covered YM Short @ 10653.00 --> + 12
Reverse and Enter Long YM @ 10653.00
<szubaark> yup..longs NOT working
<NihabaAshi> That's a loss and reversal...will correct soon.
<szubaark> looks like i walked right into that one12:28
<NihabaAshi> Making corrections now...12:34
Was trying to look for a spot to ADD but missed it :(
Exited all YM Long @ 10653.00 --> 0 12:35
Long YM @ 10665.00 -> large size
Exited YM Long @ 10653.00 --> - 12
Reverse and Enter Short YM @ 10653.00
Corrections made.
<szubaark> this is starting to smell like creeper downtrend12:36
<coolweb> broke BEAR: 2174, lets hope for a correction rally, then we go full downtrend12:37
yeah creeper downtrends scare me :D
<szubaark> thats their job12:38
<NihabaAshi> Their hard to trade on a day like today.
:(12:40
Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10652.00 --> + 1 12:41
I'm getting nowhere today :(
Taking a lunch.12:42
<FFT>  Long ES @ 1236.5 -> Add 12:47
<szubaark> Creeeppeerrrr12:54
<coolweb> correction rally

done

break new low we have to short :D12:55
<szubaark> its just SOOO SLOOWWWW12:57
<coolweb> no more selling pressure13:09

:<
<szubaark> wait, here it comes :)13:10
<coolweb> chop 1601 160313:11

nq
<tSOB>  Covered ER2 Short @ 677.6 --> + 0.1
Long ER2 @ 678.0 13:18
<FFT>  Exited all ES Long @ 1236.5 --> - 0.5 13:20
<tSOB>  Exited ER2 Long @ 677.3 --> - 0.7
<TLTrader>  Shorts YM @ 10653 -> small size «« Scalp »» 13:24
<NihabaAshi> Geesh...looks like I missed some good stuff while gone.
<szubaark> its like they know when u leave13:27
<NihabaAshi> :)13:28
Normally I take an 1 1/2 lunch break...
Today I kepted it at 45mins to prevent missing anything good...
And I still missed a good signal.13:29
Maybe I'll get lucky and my best trade signal will appear.13:30
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.13:36
<coolweb> nihabaha: haha seriously they always messing with us :D
<TLTrader>  Covered all YM Short @ 10649 --> + 4 «« Scalp »»
<coolweb> from this day on, I will never use LMT orders.13:37
LMT orders are now BANNED.
Missed a perfectly good signal, fidgeting with IB's TWS screen, god damn thing pops up like two rows of bullshit
of LMT orders13:38
enter 1604.50 , exit 1604.50, No buying pressure, Lets see how this plays out13:46
can't believe I entered at 1604.50 , thats not a great entry, but thats MKT order for yah :D13:47
NQ doing 1604 spreads 1605 , probing prices for volume!13:52
the bulls try hard, but too many injured cows on the bulls side.13:56
Looking to short 1602.50 NQ13:57
bulls fight hard for $COMPQ 2174 BEAR!13:58
<TLTrader>  Shorts YM @ 10645 «« Scalp »» 14:00
<coolweb> Not looking to short yet here, waiting 1602 NQ close!
<tSOB>  Shorts ER2 @ 676.5
<TLTrader>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10643 --> + 2 «« Scalp »» 14:01
<coolweb>  Shorts NQ @ 1602
<NihabaAshi>  Shorts YM @ 10642.00 -> large size
<szubaark>  RED ALERT14:02
<TLTrader>  Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10643 --> + 2 «« Scalp »»
<NihabaAshi> I'm looking for this to retest the long lower shadow of an earlier interval that occurred right before 1pm est before any serious counter-thrust back upwards.14:03
<coolweb>  Covered all NQ Short @ 1602.50 --> - 0.5 14:04
<TLTrader> i was looking for 10635 ish but it came back so fast i bailed
<coolweb> this short not looking like my other shorts, I'll bail
<szubaark> they popped it on ES,NQ possible double bottom14:05
<NihabaAshi> I'll only reverse into a Long if my best trade signal shows up.
<szubaark> im watching ES/NQ Lows here
<coolweb> i'm done for the day, no buyers no sellers14:06
for now
:D
i go analyze my trades
<NihabaAshi> My YM trade ain't gonna nowhere until ES and NQ makes new intraday lows.

Be right back...I have a 15 point stop and a sound alert at -10 points...got some distractions here right now :(14:09
* dan-away is now known as danshirley14:11
<NihabaAshi> Darn ER214:19
<szubaark>  Covered all YM Short @ 10651 --> - 1 14:20
<TLTrader>  Long YM @ 10647 14:21
<szubaark>  Long YM @ 10652 14:22
<tSOB>  Covered ER2 Short @ 676.7 --> - 0.2 14:23
<szubaark>  Exited all YM Long @ 10640 --> - 12 14:25
too many frikin fakeouts'
Shorts YM @ 10640
hate getting whipsawed to death14:26
<coolweb> don't trade now.14:27

let me msg you
<TLTrader>  Exited all YM Long @ 10638 --> - 9 14:31
* lesAway is now known as les
<NihabaAshi> I think only patient traders do well in "very low volatility" market environments...
Makes it tough for traders like me that either gets bored or losses patience very easy on non-volatile market days.14:32
<szubaark>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10626 --> + 14
<NihabaAshi> Nice trade szu...
I'm holding out for more...
<les>  Shorts ER2 @ 675.1 «« paper »» 14:33
<NihabaAshi> Need to dig myself out of a little hole I'm in via the earlier losses.
<szubaark> thnx..
<NihabaAshi> If a hammer forms...trying to get more won't be a good option.14:35
<szubaark> Niha what timeframe u talking about?
<NihabaAshi> 3min and 5min charts.
<les>  Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 676.6 --> - 1.5 «« paper »»

wrong

 Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 674.6 --> + 0.5 «« paper »»
<TLTrader>  Shorts YM @ 10630
<les>  exit stop moved to breakeven ER2 @ 675.1 «« paper »» 14:36
<tSOB>  Shorts ER2 @ 674.4
<FFT>  Long ES @ 1233 «« paper »»
<tSOB> ugh.14:37
<les>  Covered remainder Short ER2 at 675.1 --> 0 «« paper »» 14:39
<TLTrader>  Covered all YM Short @ 10629 --> + 1 14:41
<tSOB>  Covered ER2 Short @ 675.7 --> - 1.3 14:43
<szubaark> Niha YM 5 minute chart@2:35 is that WRB?
<NihabaAshi> Yes

And a Dark Hammer after it :(

The type of Hammer I don't want to see.
<les>  Shorts ER2 @ 674.9 «« paper »» 14:46
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.14:48
<FFT>  Exited all ES Long @ 1233.25 --> + 0.25 «« paper »» 14:53
Ya just haven't traded until you've enjoyed some lovely low vol days :(14:54
<les> ok, FFT, i take yer word for it
<NihabaAshi>  Covered all YM Short @ 10622.00 --> + 20 14:55
<FFT>  Long ES @ 1233 «« paper »» 14:56
<NihabaAshi> I was looking for a pt2 WRB and got it at 10621.00
Wished I had did an ADD soon after the Short so that I would still have some on the table.14:57
I'm done and profitable for the day...too much trading and too many missed opportunities.
<les>  Covered 2/3 Short ER2 at 674.8 --> + 0.1 «« paper »»
<FFT>  Exited all ES Long @ 1232 --> - 1 «« paper »» 14:58
<NihabaAshi> Back to back trades like that...dump it and then it drops to a pt3 :(
<szubaark> Nice as walys Niha..
* NihabaAshi is now known as NihabaAshi_away
<les>  exit stop lowered ER2 @ 674.4 «« paper »» 14:59
Covered remainder Short ER2 at 672.8 --> + 2.1 «« paper »» 15:03
<szubaark>  Covered all YM Short @ 10610 --> + 30 15:22

 Long YM @ 10610
* lesAway is now known as les15:23
<coolweb> ok15:24

sucks, today traded 1 star out of 4

even had a trade where I entered a sell order instead of a buy which I scratched
<szubaark> tomorrow will be better
<coolweb> today I didn't check off15:25

the points I look at
<szubaark> as long as u not losing much of your tution dollars
<coolweb> had the paper printed out, don't know why I only checked off the first trade

yep, thats good :D15:30
<szubaark>  Exited 1/2 YM Long @ 10615 --> + 5 15:31
exit stop moved to breakeven YM @ 10610 15:32
keeping it tight here
Exited all YM Long @ 10611 --> + 1 15:33
<coolweb> good trade szubaark
<szubaark> :((
thanx
<coolweb> keeping the stops tight :)

collecting profits!
<szubaark> hehe.. thats the name of the game
I like collecting Profits!15:35
<patr82>  Covered all ES Short @ 1231.50 --> + 5 15:46

im done15:47

had a good day15:48
<coolweb> +5 on es, definately a good day for you15:50
great job :)
<patr82> and i had 4.5 this morning
<coolweb> 9.5 trade the whole range :D15:51
<patr82> i started out with all kinds of buy signals then converted to sell15:53

 buy stop to enter long ES @ 1233.00
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.16:00
<patr82> well my last trade didn't do much buy at 1233.00 stop and will exit here in a minute16:09

 Long ES @ 1233.00

Exited all ES Long @ 1233.00 --> 0 16:10

paid somebodys commission
* NihabaAshi_away is now known as NihabaAshi17:07
* DisconnectedSession Close: Mon Jul 25 17:11:29 200517:11