Session Start: Mon Jul 18 09:42:34 2005Session Ident: #FuturesTrades
* Now talking in #FuturesTrades09:42
<X> [NihabaAshi] Password, trade post script, trader profiles and trade journals are posted ONLY at the discussion forum at http://p207.ezboard.com/bthestrategylab
<les>  Shorts ER2 @ 664.5 «« paper »»

Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 663.8 --> + 0.7 «« paper »» 09:43
<NihabaAshi> No schedule key market event today so I small size ONLY on my trades.09:44
<les>  exit stop lowered ER2 @ 664.3 «« paper »» 09:45
<mispe>  Long YM @ 10619
<patr82> gm nihabashi. "IM BACK"
<FFT>  Exited ES Long @ 1227.25 --> - 1.75 09:46
Reverse and Enter Short ES @ 1227.25
<les>  Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 663.1 --> + 1.4 «« paper »»

exit stop lowered ER2 @ 663.9 «« paper »» 09:47
<mispe>  Exited all YM Long @ 10622 --> + 3 09:48
<les>  exit stop lowered ER2 @ 663.1 «« paper »» 09:50
<szubaark>  Shorts YM @ 10619
<les>  Covered remainder Short ER2 at 663.1 --> + 1.4 «« paper »» 09:53

my posted entry was wrong...
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1227 -> Add 09:54
<les> actually 663.4, so my exits were .20 profit less than posted
<patr82> STILL holding my long09:56
<mispe>  Long YM @ 10624 09:58
<jperl>  Shorts ES @ 27 10:00
<mispe>  Exited all YM Long @ 10620 --> - 4 10:01
<patr82>  Exited all ES Long @ 1226.50 --> - 1.75
<danshirley> TICK new LOD
<FFT>  Covered 1/3 ES Short @ 1225.75 --> + 1.25 10:02
<szubaark>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10609 --> + 10
<jperl>  Covered ES Short @ 25.50 --> + 1.5 10:03
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.10:08
<mispe>  Long YM @ 10615 10:09
<TLTrader>  Long YM @ 10617 10:10
<szubaark>  Covered all YM Short @ 10621 --> - 2 10:11
<mispe>  Exited 1/2 YM Long @ 10620 --> + 5
<patr82>  Shorts ES @ 1227.00 10:12
<mispe>  Exited Remainder YM Long @ 10623 --> + 8
<TLTrader>  Exited 1/2 YM Long @ 10623 --> + 6 10:13
<FFT>  Covered 1/3 ES Short @ 1226.75 --> + 0.5 10:21

 Covered Remainder ES Short @ 1227 --> + 0.25 10:22
<NihabaAshi>  Long ER2 @ 662.90 -> small size 10:27
<TLTrader>  Exited Remainder YM Long @ 10632 --> + 15
<NihabaAshi> Nice price movement in YM...unfortunately ER2 not making much of an effort to follow YM nor NQ...10:30
Will wait a little longer.10:31
Exited 1/3 ER2 Long @ 663.20 --> + 0.3 10:32
exit stop moved to breakeven ER2 @ 662.90 10:33
ER2 poor price action merited getting my stop to breakeven.
Trailing Stop Hit ER2 @ 662.90 --> 0
<mispe>  Shorts YM @ 10640 10:35

 Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10637 --> + 3 10:38

 Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10640 --> 0 10:40

 Long YM @ 10640 10:44
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1228.25 10:45
<mispe>  Exited all YM Long @ 10630 --> - 10 10:48

NO 10637 -310:49
<diego12> sell YM10:51
<szubaark>  Shorts YM @ 10630 10:52
<TLTrader>  Shorts YM @ 10630 10:54
<diego12> taking 1/210:55
<FFT>  Covered all ES Short @ 1227.25 --> + 1 10:57
Tried to take half at 6.75, and the mearket wasn't interested in giving me that :(11:00
<mispe>  Long ER2 @ 660.5 11:01
<NihabaAshi>  Long ER2 @ 661.20 -> small size 11:03
<mispe>  Exited 1/2 ER2 Long @ 661.2 --> + 0.7
<NihabaAshi>  exit stop moved to breakeven ER2 @ 661.20 11:05
<TLTrader>  Covered all YM Short @ 10640 --> - 10
<mispe>  Exited Remainder ER2 Long @ 662.2 --> + 1.7 11:06
<NihabaAshi>  Exited 1/3 ER2 Long @ 662.30 --> + 1.1
<diego12> stop YM at 1064311:07
out
<FFT>  Long ES @ 1228.25 11:11

Let's bust a move :)
<szubaark>  Covered all YM Short @ 10642 --> - 12 11:14
:((11:15
Shorts YM @ 10638
<NihabaAshi>  Exited 1/3 ER2 Long @ 662.50 --> + 1.3 11:17
<FFT> Come on dogs, you can do better than that.
<NihabaAshi> Got a pt2...

Hopefully I can get a pt3
<szubaark>  Covered all YM Short @ 10648 --> - 10 11:18
:((
<NihabaAshi>  exit stop raised ER2 @ 661.30 11:19
<szubaark>  Shorts YM @ 10638
bastids hit my Stop
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.11:20
<pdays>  Long YM @ 10640 «« paper »»
<mispe>  Long ER2 @ 661.9 11:21
<szubaark>  Shorts YM @ 10638 11:22
<TLTrader>  Shorts YM @ 10640
<NihabaAshi>  Exited Remainder ER2 Long @ 661.80 --> + 0.6
<mispe>  Exited all ER2 Long @ 661.4 --> - 0.5 11:23
<FFT>  Exited ES Long @ 1227.75 --> - 0.5
Reverse and Enter Short ES @ 1227.75
Shorts ES @ 1227.5 -> Add
<TLTrader> i almost bailed on that pop11:28
<szubaark> this is SLOOOOWWWWW11:30
* FFT slips the market some Ex-Lax11:32
<TLTrader> double dose please11:33
<FFT> ;)
<pdays>  Exited all YM Long @ 10633 --> - 7 «« paper »» 11:39
<FFT>  Covered all ES Short @ 1227.25 --> + 0.75 11:40

Musta been some Ex-Lax for old ladies :(11:41

 Long ES @ 1227.25 «« paper »» 11:43
<TLTrader>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10633 --> + 7
<FFT> Can't bust thru 29.25, can't seem to even challenge 6.7511:44
<szubaark>  Covered all YM Short @ 10638 --> 0 11:46
not gonna watch this crap.
* szubaark is now known as szubaark_away
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1226.5 «« paper »» 11:51
<danshirley> short the euro12:07
* les is now known as lesAway12:10
<danshirley> covered euro +.000512:14
* NihabaAshi is now known as NihabaAshi_away12:16
<TLTrader>  Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10638 --> + 2 12:23
<FFT> Whoops, that's not paper12:28
Covered all ES Short @ 1226.5 --> 0 «« paper »»
Shorts ES @ 1226.5 12:29
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.12:32
* WannaBeATrader is now known as WBAT-bbl12:50
<FFT>  Covered all ES Short @ 1227.5 --> - 1 12:56
<TLTrader>  Shorts YM @ 10627 13:09
<patr82> my computer just froze and had to shut down so im back on. still short13:18
<TLTrader>  Covered 1/2 YM Short @ 10623 --> + 4 13:19
Covered Remainder YM Short @ 10624 --> + 3 13:32
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.13:44
<danshirley>  Shorts YM @ 106254 «« paper »» 13:51
Shorts YM @ 10624 «« paper »»
exit stop set YM @ 10428 «« paper »» 13:52
Covered all YM Short @ 10624 --> 0 «« paper »» 13:59
scratch no mo
* Disconnected 14:38
* Attempting to rejoin channel #FuturesTrades14:39
* Rejoined channel #FuturesTrades
<X> [NihabaAshi] Password, trade post script, trader profiles and trade journals are posted ONLY at the discussion forum at http://p207.ezboard.com/bthestrategylab
<les>  Covered 2/3 Short ER2 at 662.8 --> + 0.3 «« paper »» 14:41

 Covered remainder Short ER2 at 663.1 --> 0 «« paper »» 14:43
<FFT> Dow breaking down, must be time to buy14:45
Long ES @ 1227.25 «« paper »»
<coolweb> Hello everybody14:46

Glad to be here :D
<FFT> Shhhh, traders tryig to sleep. ;)14:48
;)=just kidding
<danshirley> ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz14:49
<FFT> Usually this room gets a lot more activity in the AM. And on dead days like this, we all just start snoozin.
Dang, stopped out.
Exited all ES Long @ 1226.75 --> - 0.5 «« paper »»
<danshirley> YM at LOD14:52
<FFT>  Shorts ES @ 1226.25 -> large size
<coolweb> Missed chance to short @ NQ 1582.5014:55

need to put an audio alert next time
<FFT> Come on Bond Boys, let's push this train wreck
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.14:56
<les>  Buys ER2 @ 662.8 «« paper »»
<danshirley> AUG CRUDE ENDS AT LOWEST LEVEL SINCE JUNE 3014:57
<coolweb> nice14:58
whats the price now?
<les>  Exited 2/3 Long ER2 at 663.1 --> + 0.3 «« paper »»

exit stop moved to breakeven ER2 @ 662.8 «« paper »»
<coolweb> aggressive buying action on NQ
under 50 ma :<14:59
<danshirley> 20 YR treas ending down about .6%15:00
<les>  stop hit ER2 @ 662.8 --> 0 «« paper »»
nuts15:01
was hoping er2 would b/out and challenge the HOD
<szubaark_away>  Long YM @ 10609 15:06
* szubaark_away is now known as szubaark15:07
<FFT>  Covered all ES Short @ 1226.75 --> - 0.5

Man, I just hate low vol days. I'm done for today.15:08
<coolweb> hitting triple bottom on NQ15:09
<szubaark> yup..everyday is different
<coolweb> I won't short no triple bottom15:14
$COMPQ breaks 50ma upside!15:15
<szubaark> yeah we jyust need followthru15:16
<coolweb> without much volume on ask
szbuaark: yep
<szubaark> blah! back to my entry15:17

market needs kick in the ass15:18
<coolweb> too late in the day
i think everybody just went home
3:30? time to pre-start the engine
* coolweb runs in place15:21
<szubaark> meanwhile, market not going anywhere15:22
<coolweb> 1582.50 2:24 EST NQ , best time to short15:27

low volume on high

low volume on ask on high

missed that

Let me start reviewing trades15:28

3:15 EST NQ , 1582 , low volume on high15:29

although above 50ma

wouldn't have taken that
<NihabaAshi> coolweb...are you still scalping ???15:30
<coolweb> nope, my risk: 1.5 , reward: 3.5-4.5
<szubaark>  Exited all YM Long @ 10597 --> - 12 15:31
:((
Shorts YM @ 10597
<NihabaAshi> Coolweb...you only trade NQ ???
<coolweb> Nihaba: yes, I only trade NQ
anymore charts on my desktop I think I'll go insane15:32
I have the cash index nq, 15 min cash nq, futures index 3 min nq , last 3 day futures nq, tick, T&S , S&P 500
and DOM
hehe so little follow through today, look at that15:34
another hammer candlestick on $COMPQ
expected though
4th triple bottom!
<szubaark> break this frikin 600

 Covered all YM Short @ 10604 --> - 7 15:37

 Long YM @ 10504

Long YM @ 10604

think Pig wants up
<coolweb> szbuark: whats your profit target?15:38
dow still under 50 ma
btw
<szubaark> +10 on first or less
<coolweb> and 8ma
is each point $5 on dow?15:39
<szubaark> yup15:40

ES 5x Bottom on 5minute.. how frikin great!15:41
<coolweb> szbuaark: +10 is like 2.5 points on NQ15:42
szbuaark: how many points do you risk?15:43
<szubaark> 10-12 Points..
<coolweb> hmm so Risk:reward = 1:1 ?15:44
<szubaark> no, i usually try to get runner for 30+ BUT this markets has been so tight lately15:45

:((
<NihabaAshi> coolweb...never measure risk:reward based on actual exits.15:47
It's measure on the goal of the trade PRIOR to entry.
If market does something negative against you AFTER your entry...15:48
Never be obligated to stay in the trade for fear of having a bad risk:reward ratio.
Obligation is to take whatever profit you can get before it becomes a loss.
This will allow you to react to what the market is "actually" doing and not react to some "fixed" goal prior to the trade.15:50
Its the main reason why most of the successful traders I know in person...15:51
Do not use risk:reward ratio as part of their trading plan.
Those guys in referencing have been trading for a living for at least +5 years.15:52
<coolweb> I see
<les>  Shorts ER2 @ 661.6 «« paper »»
<coolweb> I base risk reward prior to entry as you have mentioned, sort of like15:53
<les>  Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 661.1 --> + 0.5 «« paper »»
exit stop moved to breakeven ER2 @ 661.6 «« paper »»
<coolweb> if NQ is at 1583 , pivot line is at 1580 , reward = +3 risk = -1.5 , I wouldn't take that15:54

unless I lower risk to .5
<les> er2 LOD, please
<coolweb> since slippage is .5 (market get out)15:55

.5 + .5 = +1 point risk

+3 point reward

that'd work
<les>  exit stop lowered ER2 @ 661.3 «« paper »» 15:57
Covered 1/3 Short ER2 at 660.5 --> + 1.1 «« paper »» 15:58
<coolweb> not enough conviction @ this current downtrend on NQ16:00

but market still went down

oh yeah

its 4:00 thats why

let me review logs16:02
<patr82>  Covered all ES Short @ 1224.50 --> + 2.5 16:05
<les>  Covered remainder Short ER2 at 660.9 --> + 0.7 «« paper »» 16:07
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.16:08
<patr82> im done for today, tomorrow will begin soon enough.
<les> me too cu all tommorrow16:09
<coolweb> no setups for me today, except in the morning when my computer broke :D
<NihabaAshi> I'm only going to do a few trades in the morning until Wednesday...
I'm just waiting for the day that good volatility will show up and if it does...I'll bump up my size.16:10
<coolweb> Nihaba: Where you heading out to
<NihabaAshi> Nowhere.
Getting ready to start on my desk journal.16:11
<coolweb> whats a desk journal

how many trades did you do today?
<NihabaAshi> No volatility...just two in the morning.
<coolweb> Are you scalping?
<NihabaAshi> I never scalp.16:12
<coolweb> Oh yeah good point :D
<NihabaAshi> My goal with each trade PRIOR to entry is to stay in the trade ALL DAY for big points.
Of course that doesn't happen :)
<coolweb> so what 2 trades did you do today, Lets discuss :D16:13

First trade I would have done: 12:54 EST (NQ
<NihabaAshi> coolweb...I try not to discuss trades "I would" have done.
Sets up bad trading for me.16:14
My two trades I did today were in ER2.
Long at 1027am and 1103am
Profitable but didn't reach any of my goals.
I usually only reach my goals for a trade about 3-5 trades per month.16:16
<coolweb> looking the graph up haha
<NihabaAshi> I obviously have high reaching goals.
<coolweb> you are just reaching for the 10 point gains (1%) for the day right?
<NihabaAshi> No. My goals aren't based on points.16:17
They are based on my ability to reach a profit target 5 (pt5).
Can't explain profit targets other than they are not based on a fixed number...16:18
Mainly because the market isn't the same everyday.
<coolweb> yeah they are based on what the market can give you
<NihabaAshi> Bingo.
<coolweb> I usually look for 2-3 points, since the market always can give me that on NQ

espically during chop days
<NihabaAshi> Don't want to get stuck or fixated on fixed stops or profit targets when the market has a different plan at the moment.16:19
<coolweb> you don't have fixed stops?
<NihabaAshi> Thus, stops and profit targets aren't fixed...they are different every trading day.
They are based on the pattern at that moment in time.
<coolweb> I see16:20

so more volatile setups maybe fade backs require bigger stops
<NihabaAshi> Meant based on the price action at that moment in time.
<coolweb> then consolidation patterns
<NihabaAshi> No.
I've heard others use stuff like that...more volatile setups require bigger stops.
Never could understand that strategy.16:21
<coolweb> interesting
<NihabaAshi> Stops should be based on the price pattern...not the volatility.
Besides...how do you base a stop on volatility ???16:22
<coolweb> hmm

Well I've seen during a fed meeting

well

I guess not16:23

I haven't done any volatile setups yet, all my setups are usually at consolidation
<NihabaAshi> How's that working for you...trading consolidation...is it profitable ???
<coolweb> well I don't trade the consolidation, I wait till it consolidates, and trade it almost at the end of consolidation16:24

well it works quite good, pretty slow, I can get out of market pretty quick and easily if it goes the wrong way, I watch DOM now so its a bit better it seems lately16:25

I only do one setup now

easy setup

pretty basic16:26

anything wrong with trading consolidation?

well16:27

I just looked at ER2

doesn't look there was much consolidation going on there like NQ
<NihabaAshi> Nothing is wrong with anything if your profitable :)
<coolweb> NQ theres a straight line consolidation such as : 12:54 consolidating between 1582 and 1581.50
<NihabaAshi> Heck...if your strategy is throwing darts and it works.16:28
Keep doing it :)
I'm not conventional myself.
Not saying trading consolidation is something different.
I trade anything...don't care when it appears as long as its a valid trade signal.16:29
<coolweb> I see
<NihabaAshi> Trends, continuation, ranges or whatever.
<coolweb> I'm not up to the level of multiple strategies yet
<NihabaAshi> If I get a trade signal...I'll trade it.
<coolweb> Don't want to get confused with different signals at the moment, well
<NihabaAshi> Even if it appears at the exact same time as a Fed Announcement :)\
<coolweb> I Was trading multiple strategies a few weeks ago , such as fading breakouts when TICK count is high

but as you know, that doesn't work.16:30

:D
<NihabaAshi> Well...a good trade signal should have different skins sort'uv speak.
<coolweb> I see16:31
<NihabaAshi> I think there are hundreds of types of ways to fade a breakout...
High tick count was one way I heard a few years ago.
Never tried it so I don't know if it works or don't.16:32
<coolweb> oh I like the TICK very much

I use it with consolidation as well

it seems like traders won't take down the market when the tick count is low.

well 85% of the times

they want to rubber band it

most of the times16:33

You must watch the DOM a lot right nihaba?

noticed all successful traders watch the DOM16:35

looks good to me as well now too

like16:37

look at NQ run up at the end

thats interesting

Didn't look right on the DOM

I was researching the archives16:41

ok nevermind, nobody else is talking :D16:42

papa, how was trading today16:43

see your nick everywhere

hmm16:47

 NQ looking strong aftermarkets

:D
<NihabaAshi> [16:33] <coolweb> You must watch the DOM a lot right nihaba?
No...don't use DOM.
<coolweb> no way!16:48

really?
<NihabaAshi> Isn't DOM a scalpers tool ???
Only guys I've seen at ET talking about DOM are all scalpers.
<coolweb> I don't know if its just for scalping, but I haven't met one intra day successful trader who doesn't speak of the mysterous D O M :D16:49

well since you more of a non high frequency trader, I can see that16:50
<NihabaAshi> coolweb...most of the traders I know in person (buddies of mine I hang out with) are either institutional traders or traders for a large financial firm.16:51
<coolweb> oh I see
<NihabaAshi> These guys aren't looking at DOM :)
I think if I used that word in a conversation...they may say...16:52
What's that :)
<coolweb> hmm

but you look at volume right?
<NihabaAshi> Sometimes.
<coolweb> I've been looking at DOM / Time and sales ,and I'm finding itincredibly useful to detect

the pikers (me) who won't be moving the market16:53

and the 50-100 lots pushers who will be moving the market

i guess its mostly to see headfakes

like a 25 contract won't move the market up even though price moved +1.5 points16:54

i mean follow through
<NihabaAshi> Does it help with your trading (profits) or lessens your losses ???
<coolweb> yes yes!

Lessesns my losses, thats the key

I don't take many of the trades I use to take

before I 'd see16:55

a 1.5 move up

and I think to myself "oh shit, its moving time"

now I'd check the volume , see if its a 100 contract

if not, I don't do anything

if it is, I look at it more carefully

cause size brings out size

damn 1 lotters bring out other 1 lotters which brings me back to - commissions :D16:56

I'm trading with a 1.5 stop, I feel like the entry is quite important or I'll be stopped all day all night out16:57

so I'm almost scalping when I enter

I Think

but with a 3.5 point outlook

ok cross that outlook thing

with a what the market can give me outlook
<NihabaAshi> Is DOM in a broker platform only or is it also in some charting applications ???16:58
<coolweb> well

it looks like the LEVEL 2 on nasdaq

its on interactivebrokers

"Market depth"

dood you ain't playing with me right?16:59
<NihabaAshi> I know what "market depth" is or level 2...17:02
<coolweb> DOM = depth of market

acronymn probably
<NihabaAshi> Just don't know if the word DOM is just a different or "repackage" name for level 2 after it went belly up when the internet bubble bursted.
<coolweb> well its aka market depth17:03

so I assume you use market depth then right?
<NihabaAshi> Simply, not too many data vendors marketing via the word Level 2...but I see the word DOM.
No...I don't use market depth but I do on occassion look at Time & Sales.
When I look at T&S...I'm mainly looking for any clues to volatilty if its a low volatile trading day.17:05
<coolweb> I see17:06

hey nihaba

speaking of treadning and nontrending days

maybe you can see if my thoughts are on the correct path

ok basically , I only want to know if its trending or nontrending in a trading day17:07

because its two different strategies

tick doesn't well along with other strategies such as buying at top etc.. at all in a trending day

so

Basically em

I just try to detect if its trending or non trending by just seeing

if we are above high or low

if above high / below low , trending17:08

if in between chop

what you think of that simple idea

trying to K.I.S.S

above yesterdays high / below yesterdays low17:10

i mean

nice, auto calculate17:13
<NihabaAshi> I stop trying to determine if its a trend or range day or when it will begin or whatever.17:16
If my strategy signal appears on a range day...I enter a trade.17:17
If it appears on a trend day...I enter a trade.
If it appears on a continuation day...I enter a trade.
If it doesn't appear...no trade.
Too many traders are too dependent or think they will perform better if they know if its a trend day or range day.17:18
<coolweb> so basically you just let your stops work for you pretty much
<Awash_afk> .
<NihabaAshi> Bingo.

Nothing changes for me no matter what type of a day it is.

However, I do get less trade signals on trend days.17:19

Gotta go...dinner guest just arrived (a institutional trader)...friend of my spouse.
<coolweb> okey doke
sounds good to me
Have fun
I'll answer some support emails
<NihabaAshi> Now I got to listen to the millions of dollars he did in his last trade :(
* NihabaAshi is now known as NihabaAshi_away
<coolweb> bw nihaba17:20

btw

why don't you increase your contracts?

since you aren't scalping
<X>  #FuturesTrades Info -> This room is only for Trade Posting (real or paper) and/or discussions about a posted trade or key market events that could affect a trader's open trade position. LURKING not allowed..strictly enforced.
<coolweb> you can answer when you get back :D

haha17:21

this post on ET zf trader17:22

getting venture cap from farmers

that has to be the most hilarious post ever
* Disconnected 19:34
* Attempting to rejoin channel #FuturesTrades19:36
* Rejoined channel #FuturesTrades
<X> [NihabaAshi] Password, trade post script, trader profiles and trade journals are posted ONLY at the discussion forum at http://p207.ezboard.com/bthestrategylab
* DisconnectedSession Close: Mon Jul 18 19:40:55 200519:40